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Christ Dillinger

Making Music In My Sleep

Fame isn’t what it used to be. NYC Virtuoso Christ Dillinger dissects the illusion of underground music in the streaming era, and the strange paradox of modern celebrity—where millions of plays don’t always mean real influence. Is true artistic independence still possible, or has the industry absorbed every rebel into its algorithmic machine? A raw, unfiltered take on music, control, and the fight to stay real.

Andrea Bratta I’m just gonna get straight to it: I loved that you rapped over house beats. There’s something so nostalgic about it — it loops all the way back around and lands as something totally fresh.

Christ Dillinger In 2020, I linked up with PartyBoy. We started talking, and he was the one who told me my voice would sound great over dance beats like this.Between 2019 and now, me and PartyBoy actually made four or five different songs—probably even more. He sent me a bunch of beats, I produced some, and we went back and forth, crafting tracks that were similar to what you guys are hearing now.. But PartyBoy’s a perfectionist, and so am I, so none of those early songs ever came out. The first one we both agreed was a hit was Hoe—that’s the one we finally dropped. And that song blew up.

After that, I started doing shows with him, meeting DJs, and getting deeper into dance music. It felt like having him co-sign me really solidified my place in that world. He also helped me refine my beat selection—picking tracks that matched my voice and my rap style better. I gotta give a huge shout-out to him. Not only is he one of my best friends, but he also played a big role in helping me perfect my sound and develop a better ear for quality dance music. There’s a lot of dance music out there, but not all of it is good, you know? When it comes to house music, my biggest influences have always been legends like Frankie Knuckles, Gypsy Woman, and disco-heavy sounds. I’ve always loved disco—Bee Gees, Donna Summer, all of that. I also really fuck with James Brown. When I make a house track, I want to bring that same energy—like James Brown commanding a stage. I want the performance to feel alive, where I’m rapping every lyric, dancing, and making people feel the music. Even if someone doesn’t catch every word, they can vibe with how I ride the beat, keeping everything high-energy and uptempo.

That’s the approach I take—melding funk with dance music. Even if the beats don’t always reflect that directly, the way I attack them does. I want my words to hit like James Brown, snapping you into the groove. So even if you’re not catching every lyric, the rhythm and energy keep you locked in, just riding the tempo.

AB Yeah, it’s like another element—another instrument. You use it as part of the beat, shaping the rhythm in its own way

CD I go out a lot in New York, and I gravitate toward places that play house music. I don’t really go to rap shows, except for a few artists I personally like. If one of my friends is performing, I always show up. But when I’m going out on a Friday or Saturday night to have fun, I prefer clubs that play good house or dance music.

I listen to a lot of DJs, especially underground artists in New York and beyond—people who aren’t widely known but are killing it in the scene. There are clubs in New York that fly under the radar, places people don’t really talk about, even though house music is one of the biggest genres worldwide. It’s still not mainstream in America, despite having a strong fan base. The average person on the street might not know much about it, but the culture is thriving.

There’s this one club, Gabriella, in Williamsburg—it’s a great spot for house music. It’s a dream of mine to perform there one day. I spend a lot of time going out and listening to DJs in person, watching how people react to their sets. That helps me refine the style of house beats I want to work with.

One of the biggest turning points for me recently was meeting a producer named CP. I started a group with him—he’s in Bass Negative Squad with me. Besides Party Boy and my friend Varg, he’s one of the only producers who can make the exact type of dance beats I love to rap over. The moment I met CP, I made the entire Nuke in the Club album, and right after that, Evil in the Club—we just clicked creatively. He’s also one of my best friends in real life, which makes collaborating effortless.

CP was a huge catalyst for me putting out more dance music. I’ll never stop making house music with him—he’s my go-to.

You can really feel that chemistry on the record. It almost plays like a DJ set—the way the tracks flow seamlessly into each other. Even the way you switch up your flows between songs makes the whole mixtape feel like one continuous, immersive experience.

AB That record almost feels like a DJ set—the way it flows seamlessly from track to track. Even the way you switch up your flows between songs makes the whole mixtape feel like one continuous beat.

CD Yeah, that’s something I’ve always been drawn to. I grew up listening to a lot of Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and Jimi Hendrix, and one of my favorite things about their albums is how they flow together with no gaps. Back then, they had to record everything in the studio as a continuous piece, and I love that approach. Albums like Late Registration and The College Dropout by Kanye West do the same thing—everything connects from start to finish.

When I make my albums, I structure them the same way. All the beats and songs are connected, and I lay them out in Ableton as one long 20-minute project. I actually rap the whole thing in one go, then go back and cut the tracks up for streaming platforms like Spotify. But if you listen on SoundCloud or YouTube, I always upload the full 20-minute version because that’s how the project was meant to be heard.

House music, to me, is made for long-form listening. It’s not meant to be chopped up into short, digestible clips for TikTok or whatever. The house sets I love—DJ mixes that last two hours or more—take you on a journey. When you’re in the club, there’s that warm-up phase, then maybe an acid house section where things get weird and intense, and eventually, the DJ resolves it, bringing you back into the groove. That tension and release are what make house music special.

But in today’s world, because of streaming and the way music is marketed, artists are pushed to make two- or three-minute tracks. I get that, but I prefer making 10- or 20-minute songs. I haven’t made a 30-minute track yet, but I definitely will at some point. That’s why I upload my house projects as a full-length piece—because that’s how they were created, and that’s how they should be experienced.

AB Yeah, my first encounter with the record was through YouTube, so I got to experience it that way. And for me, growing up, going to clubs was always about house music—or even techno—but house was really at the core of it. A lot of the house music I was drawn to came from the U.S., with DJs like Frankie Knuckles, as you mentioned, but also Terrence Parker, or even some more ghetto stuff like DJ Deeon, DJ Assault.

CD Shout out to DJ Assault. Big inspo.

AB It’s funny you mentioned how, in the US, especially in places like New York with its rich house scene, there were legendary spots like Paradise Garage where house music was born and grew. The connection between house and rap music is so present. It’s interesting, though, because now in New York, the way people think about club music has changed. But listening to records, especially your rap tracks, I can really feel that influence from house music, and how you’ve been exposed to it. The way DJs play, and the approach to creating art through music, it should be long, intentional, and immersive. I completely agree. I don’t get why, in Milan or other more commercial settings, big DJs only play one-hour sets. It doesn’t make sense to me either. You really need two, maybe three hours, to get into a groove and let the full experience unfold.

CD And also, you know, if you think about how clubs and drugs go together, they kind of create this flow where you’re moving through different emotional states. Like, you need that switch between emotions, that contrast, because that’s what makes it feel real.

AB Yeah, I feel like a lot of people take drugs, and every drug comes with this moment of anxiety—like, that split second where you’re like, Oh shit, am I okay? Am I too high? A lot of drugs give you that feeling where, for a moment, you genuinely think you’re gonna die. And that same kind of tension, that anxiety, I feel like it’s in music too. Or at least, it used to be. But now, a lot of music just skips that part.

CD Exactly. Have you ever heard Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd?

AD Yeah, of course.

CD So the second track, On the Run, that track is basically one of the first times a band used something like an 808, like an electronic bass-driven thing, in a song. But more than that, the whole track is just pure anxiety. It never really resolves—it just builds and builds. And then it flows into Time, which is like this explosion of energy, almost like a resolution. That’s what I think is missing in a lot of music now. Everything is so commercialized, and everyone just focuses on the high-energy, euphoric moments—the climax—but they leave out the anxiety, the tension. And that’s such a necessary part of life.

AB Yeah, because if you’re only listening to music that’s about the high, the come-up, the happy parts, then it starts to feel disconnected from real life. Like, we can flood ourselves with dopamine all day—whether it’s through social media, music, drugs, whatever—but eventually, you’re gonna hit a low. And if the art you consume doesn’t reflect that full spectrum of emotion, you end up feeling kind of detached from your own experience.

CD Exactly. I feel like people don’t even fully understand sadness anymore because they don’t sit with it. Like, no one really sits with their thoughts anymore. The second you’re alone, you pull out your phone, you start scrolling, and suddenly you’ve got a million different people’s emotions hitting you all at once. No one’s really in touch with themselves. And I think long-form music—stuff that takes time, that forces you to sit in it—kind of helps restore that. It trains your brain to seek out deeper, more meaningful experiences instead of just chasing quick dopamine hits.

AB That really hits home for me. It’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot, and I think a lot of people feel it too—this weird paradox where we’re all super connected, but at the same time, it makes us feel lonelier. And when you lose that connection with yourself, you start losing touch with what you actually like, what you actually want. 

CD Yeah, 100%. And that’s what I’m trying to do with my music—bring that depth back, create something that really makes people feel. I think that’s why I’ve found the right people to work with too. Like, Party Boy—he’s got that legendary status, especially in Europe, with how close he is to the Berlin scene. And Varg, too—he’s such a huge influence.

AB Yeah, I was at the show in Paris with you and Varg, and the energy there was insane.

CD That’s what I mean—it’s about creating those experiences where people actually feel something real, something beyond just a dopamine hi. It was crazy. I mean, that show was insane. It was sold out, and then we had a line wrapped around the corner, people outside the building the entire night. Kanye came to that show. Yeah, and Ian Connor. Destroy Lonely, too. Kanye actually came. He’s my favorite rapper, so for him to come to one of my shows, where I’m headlining, is honestly insane to me. It still hasn’t fully sunk in—I’m still trying to process it. But yeah, it was wild. I mean, basically, everyone in the city came out.

AB That must have been surreal.

CD It really was. And for me, being from there, it helped me understand how music works, how America works, and even how the world works. Like, I’m a huge Jimi Hendrix fan—he’s the reason I started making music in the first place. And I always think about how his career took off. He toured in the U.S. for a while, but it wasn’t until he went to London that he really blew up. When his music hit Europe, the reaction was insane, and then that hype traveled back to America.

AB And you feel like the same thing is happening to you?

CD Exactly. Ever since I started playing in Europe and working with more European artists, I’ve been getting way more recognition in the States. That Paris show felt like the peak of that. I had just dropped my album, like, a week before, and now I’m playing this massive show during Paris Fashion Week, with all these big names in the crowd. It was honestly crazy.

AB Yeah, I mean, Paris Fashion Week is becoming bigger and bigger, even in a musical sense. Like, I’m from Milan, and I work in Paris for an art gallery, so I split my time—two weeks here, two weeks there. And Milan is just… slower.

CD: Yeah?

AB Especially during Fashion Week. It’s very institutional—big brands doing their shows, and that’s it. Either you’re rich or working for rich people. You go, see the collections, maybe a fancy dinner, but the afterparties are boring. There’s no underground scene, no younger artists doing something exciting. While in Paris, it’s a whole different energy. There are shows like yours happening, real moments.

CD Paris is like the world stage. I felt really lucky to do that show during Fashion Week because all eyes are on Paris. And me headlining the biggest show of the week—it felt like I was showing the world what’s next. And the craziest part is, I’m just this dude from the middle of nowhere in America, you know? I came from the slums. And now I’m up there, performing at Fashion Week, surrounded by legends like Kanye. I wish I could’ve met Anna Wintour, though, just for the experience. Also, Varg took me to the 032c runway show. I had a great time, met the guy who owns the magazine—he was super chill.

AB To think that here in Europe we still dream of New York. Funny.

CD: That’s crazy to hear.

AB Yeah, New York has that mythology around it. And seeing you so hyped and motivated is sick—it feels like you’re in a headspace where you’re just gonna keep making new, better music. So, what’s next? Anything you can spoil?

CD There’s the record that just got out and Yeah, actually—me and Varg have an album coming out next month. Got a song on it with Skrillex. Another one with Mowlola, and Gabe from Uzi. Plus, I just made this song two hours ago. Shit’s crazy how it all comes together sometimes.

AB Damn, man. You’re on fire. How do you manage to be so productive? It’s like project after project, always something new dropping. Do you have a secret or just a mad work ethic?

CD Well, honestly, I’ve got OCD, so I’m always thinking about music. I’m also a little autistic, so I just get obsessed with it. Music’s the only thing I’ve really ever wanted to do since I was a kid, and it’s like I’m constantly creating. I’ve been making music for, like, five years now. I’ve probably made thousands of songs. Every single day, I make at least five songs. That’s just how I work—always making, always creating. Even before I had any fans or any real recognition, I was putting in work. Like, back then, it wasn’t about the hype. It was just about making the music I love. I don’t even really care if people like it. I make it because I’m a fan of myself. I listen to my own stuff, so I need to keep making more to stay engaged. It’s like I’m my biggest fan. But yeah, I try to put all my music out too. I know my manager doesn’t like that—I’m always trying to drop everything I make, which isn’t always the best move. But I just gotta share it. And some of the songs come to me in dreams, which sounds wild, but it’s true.

AB Wait, dreams?

CD Yeah, for real. It’s weird, but I’ll wake up from a dream and a song will just be stuck in my head. I’ve had dreams where I’m literally rapping the whole song, and when I wake up, it’s all there. Like that song “Nick@Nite”—I had a dream where I was rapping that. So I just write it down and record it. A lot of my biggest songs came from dreams like that.

AB That’s actually insane. You’re making music in your sleep. I think you need a “dream producer” tag or something, like “music made while sleeping.”

CD (Laughs) Yeah, honestly, that’s a vibe. But it makes sense, right? I’m always thinking about music. Even when I’m asleep, my mind’s still working on it. That song I just showed you? I heard that in a dream yesterday morning, so I just woke up and made it.

AB That sounds mad. So you’ve got some global vibes with this one. What about that other song you mentioned before we started speaking on the record? The one about King Leopold and Congo?

CD Oh yeah, that’s another crazy track. I just made a song about King Leopold of Belgium and how he enslaved all those people in Congo. The story is pretty wild, and I felt like it needed to be told in a song. It’s heavy, you know? The whole thing about colonization, the suffering—people need to hear about it. It’s messed up, but I think the song can help raise awareness in some way. Honestly, it’s just something I’ve been learning about recently. I’ve been reading more, trying to understand the history and the impact of it all. And I felt like I had to speak on it. You know, a lot of people don’t even know about that part of history. So I wanted to use my platform to shine a light on it. Plus, music’s the best way to make something like that stick in people’s minds. It’s all about making music that speaks to people—whether it’s about personal experiences or something bigger. Just trying to make an impact with every track.when you look at what he did in the Congo, it was one of the most horrific genocides, yet it’s barely mentioned. People always talk about stuff like Ukraine or Palestine, or the Holocaust, but no one really talks about Africa or King Leopold’s reign. I’ve always been thinking about it, which is why I finally made something about it. And funny enough, I was on a plane watching the new Tarzan movie, and they went to the Congo. In that movie, King Leopold’s there, and they show him enslaving Africans. I thought it was crazy they even put that in a Tarzan movie, but no one’s talking about it, you know? It’s like the narrative doesn’t get pushed. It’s almost like they’re hinting at something dark, but they don’t really delve into it. And you’re right—people just don’t engage with it, like they should. The history of Africa, the real atrocities, gets brushed under the rug in favor of more immediate, sensational headlines. But when it comes to things like Palestine, Ukraine, it becomes this thing that trends for a while, and people talk about it, post about it, but it’s all very surface level. It doesn’t really go deeper than the hashtags. And that’s what frustrates me—it’s tragic when people turn suffering into trends. Everything becomes reduced to these soundbites that lack depth, and people just move on to the next thing, desensitized by it all. It’s the same as the way we consume music today, right? Everything’s instant, short, and to the point, but it lacks the substance, the nuance.

AB Yeah, I completely agree. The way we consume tragedies, issues, or even music nowadays is so detached. It’s almost like it’s become a trend instead of something that demands real attention. And when it comes to music, you were saying something about how it could be used to spread information, make people think.

CD Absolutely. I think music is one of the best ways to spread this kind of knowledge, because it stays with people. Like, with Vietnam—people don’t really talk about that war in America anymore, but songs from that era, like “Voodoo Child” by Jimi Hendrix, or “All Along the Watchtower,” those songs are about Vietnam, right? And they still live on, because they carried the message, the feeling, the soul of that time. Music sticks in a way that facts don’t. So if you want people to understand something, to feel it in their bones, put it in a song. It’s way more powerful than some hashtag. People remember music, it resonates.

AB Yeah, it’s almost like music makes things more tangible, more real. You can’t escape it, it’s in your head. But, I guess, these days, there’s a lot of pressure on artists to just make quick hits. Do you think the current state of the industry—like the rise of streaming platforms—has hurt music’s potential to spread deeper messages?

CD Oh, for sure. It’s so frustrating. Streaming services, like Spotify, are all about playlists, quick consumption. People don’t listen to albums in full anymore. They just skip through, picking out the TikTok songs, the ones they already know. No one goes through an album and feels the artist’s journey, you know? That’s what’s missing. It’s like a formula now: the label wants everything to be radio-friendly, something that’ll fit into a 3-minute slot, and you can’t really tell a story that way. Back in the day, bands like Pink Floyd made 20-minute songs, they didn’t care if they could play them on the radio. They made art, and people had to come to them for it. That’s the kind of mentality I want to bring back. Music should be something you live with, not just something you consume quickly and forget about.

AB I totally get that. It’s about the journey, the narrative. Do you think the internet and platforms like SoundCloud gave artists more freedom before they were overtaken by the mainstream industry? Could that be a way forward, going back to that sense of independence?

CD Exactly. SoundCloud was this great place where artists could be free, release what they wanted, and build a real following. But now it’s like the industry realized, “Oh, these underground artists are getting attention,” so they started swooping in and taking control. They’ve commercialized it, just like they did with the mainstream. It’s like real estate—labels buy up artists like properties, hoping one of them makes it big, and in the process, they burn all the others. It’s such a messed-up system. I’ve had labels come after me even when I was still underground, offering me deals. They just want to control everything, and it’s frustrating because a lot of artists get lost in that cycle.

AB That’s pretty bleak, but it’s the reality, isn’t it? 

CD You have to fight for it, you know? You have to resist the urge to play by their rules. Labels are all about numbers and stats, and they want you to fit into this box. But I refuse to do that. I don’t want to make music for playlists or radio airplay—I want to make music that speaks to people, that has substance. The moment you let yourself get caught up in that system, you lose the art. That’s why I’m focusing on doing things my way. If people want to hear my music, they have to come to me. I’m not putting out short, catchy tunes just to be a part of the trend. I want to create something that lasts, like the songs that captured the essence of their time, like Hendrix or Pink Floyd did. When I make my Congo song, or whatever, it’s not just going to be a quick hit—it’s going to be something with depth, something people can reflect on. . If I’m going to be an artist, I’m not going to do what’s popular. I’m going to put the message in my music, let it live on. No hashtags, no viral moments—just art. If people want the real, they’ll find it in my work. And I think that’s the power of music—if you do it right, it can outlive everything else. My Congo song will be out there forever, long after I’m gone, and that’s what matters. It’s not the same anymore. Back in the day, you’d put out something, and you’d get that natural buzz from people. Now, it’s all about these industry-controlled systems, like playlists and services, to get that same response. The underground, in a way, is being overtaken by all these commercial forces. It’s almost like “underground” is becoming its own genre now, rather than an actual space where artists can grow freely.

AB Do you think the underground still has a role today? Or is it just becoming a category or a label in itself? And what do you think could be a solution moving forward?

CD  The underground, right now, doesn’t really exist in the way we think of it. It’s more like a space where artists who aren’t part of the big industry try to make it on their own, but even then, everyone has to play by the industry’s rules now. You have to pitch your music to playlists, do all the same stuff you’d do if you were signed to a label, but without the label’s support. So, the underground has kind of disappeared, especially with the internet. Things are instantly available to everyone, and the concept of underground, in the true sense, is fading. You’ve got to do it your way. If people buy into your art, great. If not, then whatever. The reality is that a lot of artists sign these deals and end up with fake popularity. You look at their numbers, and it’s all playlist-driven. It’s not real. It’s a facade. But in the past, artists were huge because people genuinely loved their work. Nowadays, that doesn’t even seem to happen anymore unless you’re one of the few really big names.

AB Yeah, that’s exactly it. Everything is so fragmented. People’s fame is now just micro-famous, in pockets. Back in the day, being famous meant you were universally known, but now, you could be huge online in one community and barely recognized outside of it. It’s a different world. But it’s given me an idea for a song… Make Being Famous Great Again.

CD Yeah, I love that idea. It’s funny because fame isn’t even lit anymore—it’s all just smoke and mirrors. People are chasing something that doesn’t exist the way it used to. I might have just found the inspiration for another song.

Credits

Talent · Christ Dillinger
Creative Direction · Ioánnes Papadakis, Rita de Rivera and Aina Marcó
Photography · Ioánnes Papadakis
Styling · Aina Marcó from CAMUFLATGE
Set Design · Rita de Rivera from CAMUFLATGE
Movement Director · Leo D’Aquino
Tooth Gems · Juicy Tooth Gems
Retouch · Alex Petrican
Photography Assistant · R.seventeen
Art Assistant · Camélia Bouziyane
Styling Assistant · Shaun Kalani


Sou Fujimoto

Arch-Architecture: Sou Fujimoto’s Conceptual Simplicity

Few architects have redefined the relationship between nature and the built environment as profoundly as Sou Fujimoto. Renowned for his fluid approach to space, Fujimoto’s work seamlessly dissolves traditional architectural boundaries, embracing organic structures and human-scale interventions. From the ethereal transparency of House NA to the forest-like complexity of the Serpentine Pavilion, his projects challenge conventional notions of shelter, privacy, and spatial fluidity. NR spoke with Sou Fujimoto to explore the inspirations, philosophies, and evolving vision behind his groundbreaking work.

Jade Removille It’s truly a great pleasure to interview you. Your work has been such a significant source of inspiration for me, especially during my studies in Spatial Design at the Royal College of Art a few years ago and your approach to design is something I deeply admire. Your design ethos, particularly in its emphasis on the interplay between nature and architecture, resonates strongly with me. I would like to delve into the genesis of your architectural vision. Could you share how your childhood experiences in Hokkaido have influenced or shaped your perspective on architecture?

Sou Fujimoto I grew up in Hokkaido, and as a child, I often played in the wild forest. At the time, I never considered architecture, but as I began to study it, I realized that my experiences in the woods carried many meanings related to scale, diversity, and something beyond mere functionality. The contrast between Tokyo, where I studied architecture, and the natural environment in which I grew up, was particularly striking. In the heart of Tokyo, in its residential areas, we don’t encounter vast wildlife spaces. However, wandering through the narrow streets of the city, with their meandering paths, felt almost like walking through the woods.

I think this connection comes from the presence of small elements in both environments. In the forest, there are leaves, branches, and small bushes; in Tokyo, small artificial objects, including even the electricity cables, seemed to float in space. I came to realize that the forest is not just a forest—it’s a structure with a human-scale design. It’s a place where you are surrounded and protected by small elements, yet it’s also an open field where anyone can choose their path, their activities, and their way of experiencing the space.

In this way, the forest became an iconic concept for me, representing the essence of architectural thinking and the relationship between architecture and nature. It serves as the foundation for creating something that goes beyond the typical functional approach to architecture.

JR Your first project, the Children’s Centre for Psychiatric Rehabilitation in Hokkaido, Japan (2006), introduced the concept of ‘openness and protection,’ a theme that has recurred throughout your later works. The design aimed to create a space where patients and doctors could interact without hierarchy, offering both openness and privacy. Despite the seemingly accidental nature of the layout, the design process was meticulously planned, resulting in a space that appears spontaneous and unplanned. This deliberate ambiguity allowed for the creation of selectivity and contingency, providing children with irregular alcove like spaces for privacy and freedom. These spaces, while seemingly without function, were embraced by the children who utilised them for play and relaxation. The absence of a central focal point allowed for multiple relative centres to emerge, depending on the occupants’ perceptions and the changing conditions of light and space. Why was it significant for you to design a space where patients and doctors could interact without hierarchy? What impact do you think this approach has on the overall atmosphere and effectiveness of the rehabilitation process?

SF When people hear the term “psychiatric facility,” they often view it as a special, isolated place. However, rather than designing a traditional psychiatric facility, we saw ourselves creating a “place where people live,” a home. It is also a small society, encompassing 50 to 100 people, including staff, where diverse relationships constantly unfold—essentially, an urban space.

In the case of the Children’s Centre for Psychiatric Rehabilitation, one key concept was “a place to hide,” especially since the focus is on children. I envision it as a space where one can “escape” or “hide” for a while, perhaps a “dent” in the middle of a corridor. For example, there are individual rooms where children can retreat to if they wish for privacy. But these “hiding places” are not completely isolated; they are still connected to the overall space, yet slightly hidden. Children, in particular, want others to recognize that they are hiding.

This project is not about confinement but about creating an open, supportive environment. It was designed to offer various emotional possibilities, allowing individuals to choose what they need. Instead of sticking to the conventional notion of a mental hospital, we aimed to create a comfortable residential space based on the necessary functions while breaking away from traditional concepts.

JR How do you perceive the integration of trees and plants in your projects as enhancing the architectural experience, and what challenges do you encounter during the design and construction phases? Inspired by organic structures like the nest, the cave, and the forest, your signature buildings often explore the relationship between architecture and the built environment.  How do you believe this integration contributes to a higher quality of design, and what role does coherence with the existing environment play in shaping your architectural vision for the future?

SF Incorporating more nature into the urban environment is not just a trend; it will become a fundamental prerequisite for architectural and urban design in the coming era. This integration will bring diversity to the living environment that cannot be achieved by architecture or artifacts alone. As respect for diverse lifestyles and consideration for the global environment become more common, it will be essential to explore new ways of fusing nature with architecture when envisioning how to create urban spaces that are both diverse and interconnected with the planet. I believe this fusion of nature and architecture will become increasingly necessary.

JR In your design for the Final Wooden House, Kumamoto, Japan (2005-2008), you described the concept of creating ‘ultimate wooden architecture’ by mindlessly stacking 350mm square lumber. Could you delve deeper into the rationale behind this approach, particularly in regard to your decision to eschew traditional differentiation of lumber according to various architectural functions?

This minimally processed lumber helped create a refreshing variety of spaces. What inspired this unconventional approach, and what key design considerations did you address?

SF In this project, we aimed to create the ultimate wooden structure. Through the design of this bungalow—a small, primitive house—we sought to create new architecture that is both primitive and contemporary.

Wood is surprisingly versatile. It is used in many conventional wooden constructions, not only for structural elements like posts and beams but also for foundations, exterior and interior walls, ceilings, flooring, insulation, furniture, stairs, and window frames. We thought that if wood is truly multifunctional, we could create architecture that fulfills all of these functions with a single process and a single material. This approach is a reversal of versatility.

The 350mm square cedar wood has a significant impact. It transcends the usual concept of “wood” and becomes the “presence” of a completely different material. The 350mm dimension is exactly equivalent to the human body, fully expressing the materiality of the wood. These 350mm increments create a three-dimensional space that acts like a stairway to the floor. This staircase-like space has fascinated me for years because it introduces spatial relativity and creates new sensations of varying distances—something a traditional flat floor cannot achieve.

There is no strict classification of floor, wall, or ceiling here. Spaces considered floors are transformed into chairs, ceilings, and walls depending on one’s perspective. The level of the floor becomes relative, and people reinterpret spatiality based on their position. Occupants are placed three-dimensionally within the space, experiencing a new sense of depth. Rather than dividing space, elements fuse together by chance, creating it. The cedar 350mm squares are endlessly stacked, and in the end, a prototypical space emerges before the architecture becomes fully realized.

I believe this small hut touches on the archetype of what things can be.

JR The House N, Oita, Japan (2008) design features a gradation of intimate private spaces and semi-public spaces. Could you discuss the thought process behind this nested multi-layered design and how it fosters connections between inside and outside environments, expressing the richness of what lies ‘between’ these spaces?

SF In House N, we combined three boxes, carefully considering the relationship between inside and outside. With enough space for a garden, we treated the garden as part of the interior, creating a modern version of a porch. Inside the house, another box was nested within the first to blur the boundary between interior and exterior. When you reach the corner, you find an enclosed space, yet above, you can see countless fragmented pieces of the sky. The combination of feeling both free and protected is similar to the concept I expressed when designing the Children’s Centre for Psychiatric Rehabilitation.

JR I would love to talk about the ORDOS 100 #9 project that you have done in 2009. Located in Ordos, Inner Mongolia and curated by contemporary artist Ai Weiwei, the project challenges the traditional notion of a house as an object, instead conceptualising it as a totality of frequencies within a living space. Could you delve deeper into how you translated this philosophy into the design, particularly with the innovative approach of creating ‘walls of voids’ to blur the boundaries between interior and exterior spaces?

Given the unique environmental context of Mongolia, could you discuss how the surrounding landscape and cultural aspects of the region informed your design approach for the Ordos Project?

SF The idea of creating walls of space originated from House N. The boundary between inside and outside is reimagined as a gradation, producing a variety of spaces through its inherent ambiguity. The relationship between inside and outside has always been a central theme in my work. It questions the very roots of architecture while exploring the connection between nature and architecture. It also examines the relationship between private and public spaces, offering a redefinition of the dynamic between the individual and society, making it more diverse.

For the Ordos project, the vastness of the site was the initial inspiration. The site is expansive, yet it carries the contextual ambiguity of a desert center. It also boasts a rich, beautiful, and sometimes harsh natural environment. In response, we chose not to sharply separate the interior from the exterior. Instead, we aimed to create a range of spaces with varying gradations between them, allowing the entire site—and the house as a whole—to function as one small, interconnected social space.

JR Now delving into one of the most radical residential projects I have seen: House NA, Tokyo, Japan (2015) stands out as a remarkable fusion of transparency and privacy, blending seamlessly into its Tokyo neighbourhood although in contrast with the usual concrete block walls, while redefining residential living. House NA acts both as a single room and a collection of rooms, offering a unique spatial experience. Could you elaborate on how the unconventional layout and integration of the floor plates at various heights contribute to the inhabitants’ sense of connection and privacy within the home?

How did other residents in the neighbourhood react to House NA, considering its radical design featuring transparency throughout?

SF House NA was built on a relatively small site, so we decided against creating traditional, independent private rooms like a living room, dining room, kitchen, bedroom, and bathroom. Doing so would have resulted in just another small house, typical and uninspiring. The client was drawn to creative, unconventional styles, so, through discussions with them, we explored the idea of breaking free from the traditional “this room is for this function” approach. Today, people work on their computers and smartphones in the living room and often move to the kitchen or bedroom with them. There’s no real need to move back and forth between specific rooms all day long, especially in a conventional house with private rooms designed for a single purpose, which can feel claustrophobic and difficult to navigate.

Instead of separate rooms, we created multiple “corners,” offering flexibility. In this design, residents can choose whether to be with others or alone. House NA, in a sense, shares a quality with a “Children’s Centre for Psychiatric Rehabilitation,” where space encourages varied, personal use.

Structurally, the furniture is stacked in a nested arrangement, each piece connected by a staircase (which also serves as a chair). There are steps throughout the floor, but no walls to divide the space. Once inside, all the areas are interconnected, and with ceilings reaching 5 to 6 meters high, the space feels open and expansive. At the same time, the many small elements floating around you create a sense of being enveloped in a soft, airy atmosphere. Living in this house feels less like being in a glass box and more like inhabiting a small, artificial floating object.

JR Your installation The Cloud at the Serpentine Pavilion, London, United Kingdom (2013) seamlessly blends architecture with nature through its translucent structure, reminiscent of a cloud. Relocated in front of the National Gallery of Arts in Tirana, Albania, since 2016, the structure, inspired by organic shapes present in nature, has served as a modern art space for cultural events. 

Once again, man-made and nature merge, in an “artificial nest”. Formed by 20mm diameter steel bars, it is a flexible, semi-transparent structure, where visitors become an integral part of nature and the landscape yet at the same time remain protected inside. What inspired the concept behind this pavilion, and how do you see it redefining the boundary between interior and exterior spaces?

SF In designing the Serpentine Pavilion 2013, we envisioned a topographical space where people could discover new and diverse ways of interacting with their environment—an architecture that was semi-transparent. The lush greenery of the surrounding area, with its vibrant hues, blends seamlessly with the geometric forms of the pavilion. Initially, I imagined a design where the geometry and architectural forms would naturally integrate with the human body.

By repeating simple cubes that matched the size of the human body, we created a form that straddles the line between the organic and the abstract. By smoothing the edges and making the structure ambiguous, we blurred the boundary between interior and exterior. The use of thin steel rods helped create translucent, irregular shapes, while simultaneously offering protection and allowing people to become part of the landscape.

While the grid forms the overall topography, its depth varies across the space, at times creating a thick layer of air, other times a thin one, and occasionally almost transparent areas. The walls, roof, and seating areas were constructed from similar steel frames. The pavilion, as an organic structure, creates an ever-changing topography, allowing people to experience the architecture at their own pace. Each person can find their own favorite spot inside or outside the pavilion, making it feel as though visitors are drifting through a space that exists somewhere between architecture and nature.

JR In the design process for L’Arbre Blanc Residential Tower, Montpellier, France (2019), you’ve collaborated with Manal Rachdi, Nicolas Laisné, and Dimitri Roussel, drawing inspiration from nature to create a building that reimagines the concept of tower living. Could you discuss how the idea of incorporating elements of nature, such as its balconies cantilevering like branches from a thick trunk, influenced the overall design concept and the experience for residents?

How did you achieve a sense of lightness and fluidity in such a tall residential tower, and what were the structural challenges you faced during its design and construction?

SF Collaborating on the L’Arbre Blanc project involved bringing together the visions of multiple architects, each with their own unique perspectives and inspirations. Could you share some insights into how this collaboration initially formed and how the diverse contributions from yourself, Manal Rachdi, Nicolas Laisné, and Dimitri Roussel were integrated throughout the design process to create a cohesive and innovative architectural solution?

L’Arbre Blanc was a design competition organized by the city council of Montpellier in 2013, calling for bold proposals featuring eco-friendly stores and residences that would serve as a beacon to honor the city’s architectural heritage. We were approached by a young architect from Jean Nouvel’s office to participate. I didn’t know them at the time, but after speaking with them on Skype, it felt like a good match, and I was eager to collaborate.

We began with an open discussion about lifestyle and how to adapt the traditional lifestyle of Montpellier into a high-rise building. The city enjoys a warm Mediterranean climate, and I learned that people often eat outdoors, even in winter. The community also enjoys spending time outside to eat, nap, and converse with friends, so it became clear that indoor spaces weren’t the priority. From there, we decided it would be important to include plenty of outdoor space, with large balconies. Rather than jumping straight into artistic inspiration, we focused first on the essentials, and the result was a rich, expansive exterior space.

JR Are there any architects or artists in particular with whom you would love to work with. Who are some of your major influences? Architecture and none. 

SF The artists who have influenced me are innumerable. From Picasso, Brancusi, and Duchamp to Andy Warhol and Richard Long, I have always admired innovative art. The Beatles and Bob Dylan have also played a significant role in shaping my perspective.

I have been deeply influenced by the creativity of natural science, from Einstein to Heisenberg. And, of course, Le Corbusier and Mies van der Rohe, who revolutionized modern architecture, have been a constant source of inspiration for me since the first day I began studying architecture.

Collaborating with Leandro Erlich at the Shiroiya Hotel was a wonderful experience. His perspective on the world, always full of fundamental questions, has been truly inspiring.

I deeply respect Tadao Ando, both as an architect and as a human being.

JR Working in both Tokyo and Paris, you encounter vastly different architectural contexts. How do you approach the challenge of integrating your designs into these distinct urban landscapes?

SF Not only in Tokyo and Paris but across the world, lifestyles and landscapes have evolved over centuries, shaped by ethnic heritage, history, climate, and culture. I believe the most important aspect of architecture is recognising and respecting these diverse cultural accumulations, incorporating this rich history into our projects.

An architect’s true ability lies in understanding the weight of culture and history and finding ways to connect them to the future while remaining sensitive to the local climate and way of life. The essence of my approach is to listen carefully to the incredible diversity of the world, paying close attention to the unique conditions of each context. This attentiveness is what allows me to integrate architecture seamlessly with the surrounding landscape.

JR Cross-cultural influences seem to play a significant role in your work. Can you discuss how you draw upon both European and Japanese cultural elements in your architectural projects, and how do you balance cultural nuances without compromising your design vision?

SF One of the defining characteristics of my architecture is its ability to move beyond cultural differences, returning to the fundamental physical, sensory, and social aspects of human nature. From this foundation, it seeks to reconstruct the relationship between space and people in a new way. Even when a proposal may initially seem unconventional or radical, it ultimately resonates with the core of human experience. I believe this primordial aspect of our work creates a cultural balance that is universally understood across different contexts.

JR I would now love to discuss one of my favourite projects of yours, the House of Hungarian Music, Budapest, Hungary (2021): it defies conventional museum design by prioritising interaction and integration with its surroundings. Inspired by the abundance of trees in City Park, the museum’s circular volume seems to float among the treetops, inviting visitors to engage with music and nature simultaneously. The architecture blurs the boundaries between inside and outside, creating a fluid and immersive experience as visitors meander through the museum. Concerts and events take place under the floating volume, attracting crowds and fostering community around music. How does your approach differ from when it comes to architecturally design a music venue especially in terms of creating spaces that foster engagement with music and sound on a deeper level? What challenges did you face in harmonising the built environment with the surrounding landscape?

SF Since the beginning of the competition, we have been listening to the music of great Hungarian musicians and exploring their cultural backgrounds, as we felt that the House of Music would be a deeply significant place for the people of Hungary and Budapest.

The site’s location within a beautiful forest was a crucial starting point. We asked ourselves how architecture could be seamlessly integrated with nature—how the experience of walking through the forest could gradually transition into an architectural space. We also considered how the glass music hall on the ground floor could foster new activities inside while remaining in harmony with the surrounding forest.

As a result, the large roof—pierced with countless openings—serves as both an architectural translation of the forest and a means of facilitating a gradual transition from the natural landscape to the building’s interior. The outcome is a transparent music hall that extends into a semi-outdoor space, allowing visitors to engage with both music and nature, listening to beautiful sounds amidst the trees.

The greatest challenge was designing a music facility that could coexist respectfully within this environment, preserving and honouring the natural surroundings.

I believe this project has become a powerful symbol of my ongoing exploration of the fusion between nature and architecture.

JR How do you perceive the relationship between music, sounds, and architecture? Specifically, could you share your thoughts on the concept of creating soundscapes within architectural spaces? 

SF This architecture is composed of multiple elements—the whole and its parts, the surroundings and the interior—all in harmony with one another. In this sense, I would say it is very musical.

In particular, the “music hall open to the forest” at ground level—from the outdoor plaza beneath the large roof to the entrance and main performance space—is a special place that seamlessly blends into the surrounding park. Its expansive roof, made of soft golden fragments, appears as a fusion of artefacts and nature, rippling gently into the forest.

For the acoustics, we collaborated with Nagata Acoustics, a world-renowned acoustic design firm, from the competition stage of the project. Throughout all phases of design, we worked to enhance the acoustic quality, creating a space where architecture, soundscape, and landscape harmonise and resonate with one another.

JR Your architectural work often embodies a profound connection between nature, space, and human experience. In light of Goethe’s notion that ‘architecture is frozen music,’ which reveals a universal theme of expression underlying all creative disciplines, how do you perceive the relationship between architecture and music? Are there any musicians or genres that you find particularly inspiring or that resonate with your design philosophy?

SF I am not an expert on music, but I have always loved the Beatles and listened to them often. As a boy, they taught me how wonderful it is to create something new—an idea that still underpins my creative roots.

Glenn Gould’s interpretation of Bach, meanwhile, offers a beautiful connection between the cosmic scale and the human experience.

JR I would like now to delve into the Sky Mountain Haikou Bay No.6 High Standard Seaside Station, Haikou, China (2023).providing a space for travellers to transition between the city and nature. Could you elaborate on how the design concept transforms a nature valley form into an innovative stage for new experiences and social interactions within the pavilion?

SF We believed the Haikou Seaside Stop pavilion would serve as a focal point, offering travellers the opportunity to meander between the city and nature, with spaces designed for social interactions. A valley-like natural form became the stage for a new type of experience and space.

The Sky Mountain design features a gently sloping, valley-like rooftop that transitions smoothly from the city side to the seaside.

All visitor services and TV support programs within the stop pavilion are housed under a single roof, sharing an open floor space.

JR How do you foresee the role of your architectural vision in inspiring future generations of architects, as you continue to integrate natural and architectural elements, even in futuristic projects beyond Japan? Furthermore, what legacy do you aspire to leave through your work as it evolves and influences the architectural landscape of tomorrow?

SF I believe that the integration of nature and architecture is the vision of the future. Various attempts will be made to achieve this. I will be happy if my project can be an inspiration for future architectural thinking. It won’t just be about architectural styles, but will influence deeper thinking about the relationship between nature and artifacts, between individuals and society, and between people. It will also influence more philosophical ideas such as simplicity and complexity, change and eternity, the moment and eternity.

Credits

Talent · Sou Fujimoto wears th products.
Photography · Yuichiro Noda
Styling · Reina Ogawa Clarke

Mucho Flow Festival 2024 Guimarães

2024 Mucho Flow Snow Strippers Photography João Octávio Peixoto

Guimarães breathes different air during Mucho Flow. The city—a UNESCO-stamped history lesson of medieval charm and serpentine alleys—undergoes a subtle, intentional rewiring. There’s a low-frequency thrum beneath the cobblestones, a collective hum of anticipation. The festival feels curated—not in a hyper-branded, algorithmic way, but with a deliberate touch, as if each act was chosen not just to fill a slot but to complete a circuit. Live music diehards, experimental sound-scapers, and club kids orbit around a shared axis of sonic exploration.

Between sets, the crowd spills into the streets like smoke escaping a room—only to gather itself again, folding back into the next venue like a recurring dream you can’t quite shake. There’s something spectral about it. Mucho Flow doesn’t just stage performances—it conjures a language. One built on shared frequencies, sidelong glances, the tacit codes of experimental sound and improvised aesthetics. It’s what Sarah Thornton would call subcultural capital, but here it feels less academic, more lived—felt in the way people move, dress, speak without needing to explain.

The city’s venues serve as emotional coordinates: CIAJG with its brutalist echo, Teatro Jordão’s plush nostalgia, the minimalist CCVF, the chipped elegance of São Mamede. They don’t just host—they haunt. Dotted across Guimarães like pressure points on a map, they pull you through the city’s dark arteries. You don’t attend Mucho Flow. You drift through it. Between a late-night bar, a staircase conversation, a courtyard cigarette.

It isn’t a festival with borders. It breathes. It evaporates. It reforms somewhere else.

In Guimarães, the festival pulses against a backdrop of tiled facades and baroque silhouettes, casting silhouettes of tomorrow’s sound against the texture of yesterday’s stone. It’s a place where friction becomes fuel—where the soft violence of distortion slips easily into the grace of a medieval alleyway. Tradition holds hands with rupture. Beauty hums beside abrasion.

Mucho Flow feels like an affair whispered rather than advertised. There’s an intimacy to it, a charged closeness, like being folded into something sacred and fragile. The boundary between stage and floor dissolves; what’s performed becomes shared. It’s not about headliners or recognition—it’s about resonance. Gabber, jungle, ambient drones, deconstructed club, folk mutations—all colliding like weather fronts in a sky that won’t settle.

The audience doesn’t just listen—they lean in. There’s a quiet literacy in the room, an alertness. No one needs translating. Newcomers and cult favorites coexist without hierarchy, because here, curiosity is the only currency that matters. And everyone seems rich with it.

The festival’s diversity defies tidy summation. In the fog-drenched Lynchian haze of The Jordao Theater Auditorio you get an almost opera-esque experience with the likes of Rita Silva, Nadah El Shazly’s voice at sunrise, or Bianca Scout’s performative immersion. Across the Jordao Galeria and Vila Flor’s walls you get out of the dream sequences and into the action with live sets by Snow Strippers, Angry Blackmen, University, Florence Sinclair, and more. A jolt to the senses in different directions, with sonic detournements all having in common one thing: An in your face approach to live music. Each night closes with a club sequence: Gabber Eleganza, TOCCORORO, DjLynce, Alex Wilcox, Crystallmess, Violet. The momentum builds, collapses, regenerates. The only issue would be the lack of sleep. But that’s what all festivals are all about, don’t they?

The first night begins with hesitancy. Outside Teatro Jordao, the air is wet and electrically charged. My first cigarette tastes like metallic fog. People are dressed like ghosts from a nightclub that doesn’t exist yet. No one I know. Good. Mucho Flow isn’t about reunion—it’s about detachment. The opener struggles to ignite the room, fragmented between local catch-ups near the bar and out-of-towners scanning the scene. Then Florence Sinclair recalibrates everything. Avoiding cameras with paranoid grace, he becomes a conduit on stage—unrelenting, eyes obscured by a durag, pulsing forward with uncompromising presence. The crowd yields. The club energy locks in. Cashless bars, quiet alliances, subtle nods exchanged in corners. Thornton’s theory at work again—subcultural identity forged in shared frequencies.

Still House Plants follow. Slacker swagger meets glacial dissonance. A sound more at home in a gallery than a nightclub. Someone calls it “California post-rock elegy” before realizing they’re from London. The loops fracture. The party stretches. The line between set and sunrise begins to blur.

I get lost in the street on my way to Jawnino, an Italian searching desperately for a Negroni. That’s because I love clichès, but maybe this is an unnecessary detour. The Vila Flor venue surprises me with its architecture, and how people responded to it: Have you ever seen a pogo and a seated audience in the same room, inches from one another? No? Well, you should have been to Mucho Flow.

My battery is running low, but i had to check Crystallmess’ set: Even though it is by now the 5th time i listen to her DJ, she always finds a way to surprise me. Icon.

Day two shifts gears. The crowd now surges with energy rather than observation. At the hotel, a group of Berliners say they came just for Crystallmess—and are still recovering. “You don’t get nights like that back home,” one says, already on his second beer. Papaya follows with forty-something musicians unleashing beautiful, cathartic noise. The younger crowd takes over, the older ones still reverberating from the night before. The festival avoids retro revivalism, instead inhabiting a pre-indie, post-genre liminal zone of raw experimentation.

At night, the concert halls give way to club transformations. Rita from the festival team shares Mucho Flow’s beginnings—cramped rooms, high-risk bookings, a taste for the unknown. The dressing rooms buzz with burlesque charm and lived-in chaos. Artists drift through in towels and glitter. Phones become DJ decks. Sharpie graffiti fills the walls. It feels like a séance backstage. A cabaret run by witches.

Gabber Eleganza melts me at 5AM. I’m unsure if I’m alive or in a rave-sponsored hallucination. On the cobblestones outside, someone plays Snow Strippers on their phone at volume 3. No one speaks. We just listen.

Morning. Church bells, clean sun, €1.20 espresso. Guimarães returns to itself, but I don’t. I walk slower. I observe less, feel more. I realize I’ve been reporting from a distance—an anthropologist at a séance. But Mucho Flow doesn’t want to be understood. It wants to be surrendered to.

So I stop writing.

And let the frequency take me.

Outside, a handful of us perch on a bench, finishing final cigarettes. Someone plays a track from the night before, barely audible. It’s enough.

Guimarães, by daylight, resumes its identity. But for those touched by the temporal dislocations of Mucho Flow, something lingers. The realization comes: the people here aren’t observing. They’re experiencing. And that is everything.

It’s not about understanding.

It’s about surrender.

And perhaps, in that surrender, lies the true essence of Mucho Flow.

Credits

Words · Andrea Bratta
Photography · João Octávio Peixoto
More information on muchoflow.net

In order of appearance

  1. Snow Strippers
  2. Angry Blackmen
  3. Crystallmess
  4. Hypnosis Therapy

TOCCORORO

NR sat down with Spanish sensation TOCCORORO just before her set at Mucho Flow’s closing club night. Backstage, sipping on a Red Bull and picking at some fruit—fresh from her post-flight beauty sleep (ah, the DJ life!)—she dives into her musical calling, her approach to a set, and what keeps her in love with the game.

Andrea Bratta Hey Claudia, how are you? Thanks for taking the time to speak with me ahead of your show.

TOCCORORO I’m good, thank you! I wish I could have get here sooner, I really wanted to catch Snow Strippers live, but I had to get my beauty sleep before tonight’s performance. I love festivals like this—similar to Unsound—they are really cozy, and I have the feeling everyone here is truly for the music.

AB Yeah, I get it. Some festivals, people just want to see the big names, snap photos..it all feels more like a 360° experience, rather than just a music festival, you know?

T Exactly, but here’s kinda different. I prefer festivals that focus on music, period. 

AB What’s interesting about Mucho Flow is that each venue has its own atmosphere and way of building a different atmosphere for the audience.

T Yes, that was the impression I had, also.

AB I think that this is something that could be interesting particularly for you as a performer—how people move through different spaces, gradually deepening their involvement, until it all culminates here, where we are right now, in the club.

T Yes! I think I’m gonna have a great night here. This room is gonna be insane, there’s such a great line-up.

AB I mean, I’ve got my flight at 9.00, and pick-up is at 6.30, so now that you make me think of it, I wish I had a nap or two too

T You’ll have to pull off an all-nighter, but I wouldn’t worry about it, just enjoy it [laughs]

AB Did you prepare something special for this set?

T  Actually, for this weekend I have some  brand new stuff that I’ve also been testing lately. There are some new tracks and transitions that I want to incorporate and try on this crowd. 

AB How does it feel to test new stuff around? I get to always prepare in advance before interviews, there’s the research phase, “testing” the questions in advance. I rarely get to improvise. 

T Yeah, it’s a bit of a risk, but that’s part of the thrill, right? I like testing how different crowds respond. This time, I’m maybe 60% confident they’ll love it—but I’m also curious to see how it plays with a different audience. I already know it works in other contexts. Like, playing a set in a club isn’t the same as at a festival. Take C2C, for example—the crowd there was pretty young. So when I drop a track that samples a show from my generation, layered with drums and everything, it hits in a fun, unexpected way. It’s got that diva energy, and I can tell it lands

AB One thing I wanted to ask about is the festival’s strong identity—it feels really intentional, with a lineup that brings together both live music lovers and fans of more experimental sounds, while still leaning into that atmospheric, club-like vibe. I imagine your set will spark some interesting conversations with the crowd, though you’ve already touched on that a bit. So maybe we can go a little deeper into your own project—CAOTICA. 

T My party is something really special to me—it’s like a marriage. Nitsa was one of the first clubbing institutions to really support me in Spain—they saw my vision and offered me the opportunity to create my own night, my own party with them.

We started last year, doing a series of three nights with me, Merca & Cardopusher. Each time, we curated a lineup of three artists—it’s not a monthly thing; it happens when it makes sense, when the right energy is there. For me, it has to feel natural, organic. The artists I bring need to align with my vision—I’m not here to push names just for the sake of it. It’s important to me that this party represents what I believe in, and it serves as a reflection of my work. The first two parties leaned toward a more Latin-Club sound, maybe more aggressive, with a strong South American influence. But then, with Cardo, there’s that UK touch—deep, bass-driven, but still carrying Latin influences from his background. There’s always this dark, intense sonic thread that ties it all together.

I am also very very happy to be in the position of introducing and giving a platform to new talent like Blood of Aza. For me, this new wave of artists is really exciting—they’re pushing things in the right direction with a strong artistic vision. Bringing her to her first Boiler Room, her first big festival, and her first gig in Spain—at my party—was something I was really proud of. I’m a huge fan of hers.

Next year, we’re taking things even further. People think CAOTICA is just a Latin club night, but it’s much more than that—it’s everything I truly believe in and feel represented by. The next one is going to be really special—bringing in two legends, two friends, and collaborating with a label I really respect. You should stay tuned for it.

Everyone is welcome in my house. I don’t care about labels, I don’t care about boxes. If you believe in the vision, if you’re pushing the sound forward, I fuck with you.

AB Indeed. You know, some might say that the concept of a “scene” is fading because everything has become so global. Festivals now showcase everything, bringing what was once underground into the mainstream of electronic music. But I think that, while it may have seemed that way for a moment, we’re actually seeing a resurgence—scenes, parties, and more collaborative efforts between artists are making a strong comeback. Even festivals like Mucho Flow, whose focus is having a grassroots approach to music. It’s exciting to witness and be part of. Speaking of scenes, could you walk me through some of your main influences?

T My main influences—well, I have to say, and I’m a little embarrassed to say it, but before starting my career as a DJ, I was actually much more involved in dance. I grew up obsessed with movement. As a kid, I was the type to stay home all day just watching performances, completely fascinated by them. I remember always asking my mom, “When am I going to do that?” I loved the idea of being a musician, a dancer, or maybe both. I was constantly curious, always diving deeper into music.

But at the time, I didn’t really see a clear path into that world. Maybe it was because I was a woman or because I wasn’t surrounded by a community that encouraged me in that direction. I didn’t come from a scene or a party culture—I came from the music industry, but not in a way that felt immediately connected to what I do now. I was the first in my family to take this path. So when people ask me about my biggest influences, I struggle to name just one. I wasn’t looking up to a specific artist or trying to emulate anyone. Most of my friends had been immersed in music since the beginning, but for me, inspiration came from everywhere—movies, fashion, art, whatever caught my attention.

The real turning point came when I was in college. I thought I wanted to work in fashion or film, but I kept feeling like something was missing. And that missing piece was always music. It had been there all along, even when I ignored it. Funny enough, I actually studied journalism—I even considered becoming a music journalist. I loved radio, absolutely hated writing, and wasn’t into filmmaking, but radio shows and podcasts? That was my thing.

After university, I started getting involved in the local music scene in my city. At first, I was mostly surrounded by rappers and DJs—almost all men. And I hate to frame it like I was being “sht out” because I don’t want to victimize myself, but the reality is, at that time, things were different. There weren’t many women in my generation stepping into that space. Things have changed so much in the last five years, and now there are so many incredible female DJs, which is amazing to see. But back then? I was one of the very few.

I started throwing parties with one of my best friends, who’s actually now one of my dancers at Sónar. We put together a party series in Vigo, Galicia, and I handled the creative direction. It was a monthly event, and by the second year, I was fully immersed. At first, the DJ lineup was mostly men—I knew that was the standard. But at some point, I realized we could change that. It wasn’t just about booking DJs; it was about building something new. I reached out to my friends who were already into it, and they helped me learn how to use a controller. I ended up practicing for four hours straight—it just felt natural, like something that had always been inside me. I guess it makes sense, considering I’d been imagining it my whole life.

But honestly, I started feeling even more inspired once I began touring and meeting people in the industry. Seeing different scenes, playing in different places—it all shaped my perspective. Every city, every crowd, every moment on stage has influenced me in some way. I feel like my experience has been built entirely on what I’ve lived firsthand.

AB I mean, the way you talk about it really resonates. You approached music through community—by being surrounded by people, by the energy around you. And in a way, you channeled that community into your own journey.

T This was something that was always meant to be—I just didn’t realize it at first. As a kid, I knew I had a sense of rhythm, but I didn’t quite understand what it meant or where it would lead me. And then, eventually, it all clicked. Like, okay, this is it—this is what I’ve had inside me all along. It’s a beautiful feeling. Finally, for the first time in my life, I know what I’m meant to do. And even if I have to pay the price for it, at least now, I know why.

AB For me, it was the opposite. I resisted things like interviewing or writing, the more journalistic side of things, but it turned out to be what I was actually good at. I went to fashion school because I wanted to work in fashion, but somehow, I ended up where I was meant to be, just like you. And, here we are. Life’s funny. Anyway, I hope you have an amazing show tonight. I’m looking forward to it. It’s been great talking to you. Thank you!

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Merlin Modulaw

An Exploration of Spatial Sound and Personal Reverberations

From crafting new sonic landscapes to challenging conventional approaches to sound and identity, Merlin Modulaw has carved a unique space. Transcending the confines of genre, culture, and medium, Modulaw seamlessly melds the organic with the artificial, the familiar with the avant-garde. For Modulaw, sound is a force of perpetual fluidity and transformation, a dynamic language shaped by our deepest perceptions and cultural narratives. Innovation, in his vision, is a radical act of recontextualization, breathing new life into the past and dismantling the boundaries between the known and the unknown. This interview unveils the compelling vision of an artist who crafts immersive experiences that redefine the very nature of sound.

From a young age, you’ve been drawn to the intersection of contrasting influences, crafting entirely new sonic landscapes. How was this vision born and what does this relentless pursuit of convergence reveal about the vision of innovation? How does it challenge conventional approaches to sound and identity?

I’ve always been drawn to a wide spectrum of musical histories and narratives. For me, sound is
less about genres or categories and more about fluidity: It’s constantly evolving, morphing, and
finding new forms. I often think of sound in terms of colors, textures, and patterns, and how you can find these elements across different, seemingly unrelated worlds that actually share common threads. This pursuit of convergence is rooted in my fascination with collaboration. Music, at its core, is communal and dialogical, and through collaboration, I gain insights into others’ worlds and perspectives. This interaction shapes my musical language and influences the way I think about sound.

I’m also deeply interested in the semiotics of sound—how we perceive and assign meaning to it, often based on our upbringing and cultural context. For example, bird songs or the sound of a river evoke particular ideas of nature, cleanliness, or tranquility. These associations are built over time and vary across cultures, yet they form a shared language of meaning.

When it comes to innovation, I believe it isn’t solely about pushing technology or creating something entirely new. The Western concept of innovation often emphasizes the future and the new, but for me, innovation can also involve reframing the past: Recontextualizing, reshaping, and reinterpreting it from a fresh perspective. While technological advancements, such as in synthesis or AI, certainly play a role in shaping the future, I think today’s innovation often lies in revisiting and reworking ideas from the past, seeing them in a new light, and creating something relevant for the present and the future.

Your work transcends traditional boundaries, blurring the lines between genres, cultures, formats, and the human and artificial. A whole new sonic experience it is. What are the key sources of inspiration behind this?

My inspiration draws from a confluence of diverse musical worlds. It really started when I was around 14 or 15, being completely captivated by the French touch movement, particularly Ed Banger, along with the vibrant UK electronic music scene. These early influences sparked my fascination with blending contrasting sounds and creating something fresh. Later, my studies in electroacoustic composition and sound design deepened my understanding of sound’s fluidity and manipulation. Key figures like Maryanne Amacher and Natasha Barrett, who works so beautifully with spatial sound and architectural acoustics, have been incredibly influential. I’m also deeply inspired by Dennis Smalley’s ideas of sound morphology and space form, exploring how sound moves and evolves within a space. I’m fascinated by how sounds can trigger different interpretations based on listeners’ experiences and cultural backgrounds. This semiotic layer of sound is central to my work.

In my creative process, I try to maintain a sense of childlike intuition, focusing on instinctive experimentation. When I encounter challenges, I rely on my technical studies. I tend to compose quickly, then organize the sounds into distinct ‘folders,’ like lego pieces, which allows me to later shape them into a cohesive narrative.

Your artistry spans composition, production, performance, and spatial audio, with each element shaping one another. How do you ensure that these diverse mediums are not merely layered but woven together into a cohesive, immersive experience?

For me, it’s about choosing the right format for the right idea. Not every piece of work needs to be
fully spatialized, and not every sound requires visuals to make an impact. Some ideas are stronger when expressed through sound alone, while others need a visual component to fully communicate their depth. The key is to avoid using a medium just because it’s available. It should serve the idea, not just be an effect. When it comes to spatialized sound, it’s about finding the right moment to use movement or specialization, rather than using it just because you can.

Creative exploration extends beyond the realm of music. You venture into new territories such as video works and print, expanding the boundaries of creative expression. How does this vision of innovation translate beyond the realm?

I don’t see music as a standalone entity—it’s part of a larger, immersive world. Video, for instance, is a particularly visceral format because it combines performance, writing, sound, image, and composition. It creates profound, often indescribable emotional moments through the combination of sound and moving image. In this context, music isn’t the final product, but one element within a larger creative experience.

There’s a haunting quality to your compositions, with traces of something just beneath the surface, never fully revealed. Is the process behind this mysterious pull a deliberate act of restraint, or does it emerge organically from the tension between the known and the unknown? What do you hope to evoke in the listener by leaving these fragments just out of reach?

My process is quite intuitive, as I mentioned earlier. However, the underlying idea is centered around the semiotics of sound, the delicate balance between the abstract and the concrete. You can approach this from both sides: by taking a very concrete sound and abstracting it, or by processing an abstract sound to give it form, movement, and meaning.

I prefer to evoke an image that remains open ended, allowing each listener to form their own interpretation. This approach contrasts with film scores, which often dictate the emotions you should feel at a particular moment. I find that limiting. Instead, I lean towards minimalistic sound scores that leave more room for individual perception and emotional response. By doing so, I aim to create a more personal, unique experience for each listener, where the meaning emerges from their own memories and understanding, rather than being prescribed by the music.

XRR Global masterfully blends experimental electronic elements with contemporary rap, creating a sound that feels both groundbreaking and familiar. What was your creative process in merging these seemingly disparate genres, and how do you approach the challenge of making such collaborations feel cohesive?

Rap music, especially today, has this deep focus on sub-bass and distortion, where pushing sounds to the edge and creating that clipped, gritty texture becomes a stylistic choice. This approach is something I also find in experimental electronic and industrial techno music, where distortion and clipping are used to blend sounds like sub-bass, cymbals, and white noise into one cohesive form. I’ve always been fascinated by how these elements can merge and create a unique sonic color and texture, which is where I see the connection between the two genres.

Working with Brodinski has been a key part of this exploration. He shares a similar perspective on merging these worlds with electronic and transitions into rap. Together, we’ve worked on numerous tailor-made projects for vocalists and rappers. The process can vary: sometimes we send out batches of beats, while other times, we’re in the studio together for a week, creating a specific musical world for an artist. There are also moments where we receive acapella and then reimagine the musical world around them.

With Lil Xelly, his bold, experimental approach really pushed the boundaries, and I’m grateful for the trust he placed in us. The creative process begins intuitively, but once we have four or five tracks, we step back and assess what’s missing, what could complete the emotional and sonic landscape we’re building. It’s about finding the right final pieces to round out the textures, colors, and emotions that define the world we’re creating.

The treatment of vocals in the work feels like a narrative device and a fragmented texture — disembodied yet intimate. What fascinates you about dismantling sounds and the human voice to reconfigure meanings?

The voice is a fascinating element because it exists in a liminal space between abstraction and concreteness. Our hearing is finely attuned to voices, the frequency spectrum we perceive is optimized for them. Even without fully understanding words, subtle intonations can evoke emotions, yet this very sensitivity can lead to misinterpretation. A tone might feel urgent,
melancholic, or even aggressive, depending on the listener’s perception. Meaning, then, emerges from this delicate interplay of sound and context. What draws me to the voice is its ability to serve as both an anchor and a bridge. Within experimental soundscapes, the voice offers familiarity; something tangible for the listener to grasp, making abstract sonic textures more accessible. It carries emotional weight even when fragmented, distorted, or stripped of linguistic clarity. By manipulating the voice through reverb, pitch-shifting, or other techniques, it can become something spectral, a memory rather than a presence, while still retaining an undeniable human essence.

What fascinates me most is how meaning shifts through abstraction and disembodiment. A voice, stretched and fragmented, can evoke entirely new associations, altering its perceived intent and emotional resonance. There’s also a dynamic tension between what remains intelligible and what dissolves into texture between voices that feel present and those that feel distant or spectral. This contrast, the play between clarity and obscurity, is central to my exploration of the voice as both a narrative device and a textural element.

Songweaver premiered at Gessnerallee in Switzerland, and the spatial dynamics of a performance space can deeply influence both process and experience. How did the unique architecture of the venue shape your approach to sound, movement, and dramaturgy?

Definitely. The space at Gessnerallee had a significant impact on the performance. It wasn’t a conventional square room but rather a long, elongated space with wooden pillars, which influenced both the visual and sonic design. These pillars became part of the scenography, almost resembling tree trunks, blending into a more organic, naturalistic aesthetic. Instead of a fixed frontal perspective, the layout encouraged a more circular and immersive approach, challenging traditional hierarchies of stage and audience positioning.

Sonically, we embraced this elongated space by arranging two circles of five speakers, forming a shape reminiscent of an “8.” The two central speakers acted as the core, with sound shifting fluidly around them. This setup allowed for an evolving perception of space, sometimes expansive and undefined, sometimes centered and focused.

The dramaturgy was structured into four segments, with two blocks emphasizing spatial audio and darkness, where the bodily presence of the performer was almost erased. The absence of a clear visual focal point left room for the audience’s imagination to construct their own sense of space. Then, in contrast, we introduced performative moments. These shifts between absence an presence, between sonic immersion and physical performance, shaped the dynamic interplay of the room, constantly redefining its perception and energy.

This dialogue between spatial sound, light, and bodily presence became central to the experience, allowing the audience to navigate between abstract sonic environments and moments of human connection.

The Songweaver is a fluid, ever-evolving project that adapts through different formats, from recordings to live performances. How do you preserve the core essence of the work while allowing it to continuously evolve, and what does this process of constant transformation signify in your approach to sound and storytelling?

I think it always comes back to the question of essence: What is it that makes a piece emotionally resonant for me in the moment? It could be a chord progression, a voice sample, or the movement of the drums. Identifying that core element is the starting point, and from there, I allow the work to
evolve through experimentation.

A big part of my process is maintaining a sense of naivety and flow, letting ideas unfold naturally
without overanalyzing in the early stages. I rarely experience writer’s block because I focus on
keeping that state of fluidity alive. Later, I take a step back and assess: What is the purpose of this
piece? Does it function as intended? Does it convey what I imagined? If not, I revisit and reshape it, but without letting the initial vision become a constraint.

This constant transformation reflects my approach to music as something beyond a fixed, final product. Instead, I see it as part of a larger, immersive world—one that can be reinterpreted and reshaped across different formats, whether in recordings, live performances, or other mediums. This adaptability keeps the work alive, allowing it to shift and take on new meanings over time.

It transcends the traditional concept of a digital album. It’s a dynamic exploration of music as a continuously evolving language where the voice takes on a central, transformative role. Rather than simply conveying lyrics or melody, the voice acts as a portal—fragmented, manipulated, and spectral. This interplay of presence and absence creates a profound tension. What does this duality uncover about the human experience of transformation, and how does it invite listeners to delve into the intricate layers of memory and loss?

I started feeling fatigued by the idea of a digital album as the definitive form of a musical work, especially in a time of content oversaturation. With platforms like Spotify, music has increasingly become a commodity, something consumed rather than deeply engaged with as an art form. That’s why I wanted to approach The Songweaver not as a fixed product, but as a fluid, evolving musical world—one that can take on different forms depending on how it is experienced. The digital album is just one manifestation of this, shaped by the way people engage with music in that format, but never the final or only form.

At its core, music is a vessel for emotion. I’m always asking myself: What makes this piece so emotionally resonant? What is the essential element that moves me? Once I find that core, I experiment with recontextualizing it. Stretching, distorting, or reshaping it to see how its meaning shifts. This is something deeply embedded in my process. For example, I love recording with vocalists and then stripping away the original instrumental, placing their voice in an entirely new sonic landscape. Suddenly a song transforms, its lyrics take on new meaning, its emotional weight shifts.

This process mirrors human transformation itself, the way memories evolve over time, how the past lingers but is never static. By manipulating the voice, disrupting its clarity, playing with its spectral presence and absence, it becomes untethered from a singular identity, allowing the listener to project their own emotions and narratives onto it. The voice, in this sense, becomes an echo, a fragment—both familiar and elusive, much like memory and loss.

Consequently, the voices in The Songweaver pulls the listener into its world, suggesting untold stories and emotions that linger in the ether. Here, the voice is not confined to a singular identity. Through techniques like pitch shifting, time-stretching, and ghostly reverberation, it dissolves into something both abstract and universal, becoming a vessel for memory, loss, and transformation. How do you navigate the process of translating such abstract themes—like culture and transformation—into sound, and what role do you envision the listener playing in uncovering the deeper emotional and cultural narratives woven into these vocal fragments?

For me, the voice is one of the most powerful tools in music because it carries an inherent human quality, deeply intimate yet endlessly malleable. In The Songweaver, I wanted to push the voice beyond its conventional role as a mere carrier of lyrics or melody. By manipulating it, shifting pitch, stretching time, layering multiple takes it becomes fluid, untethered from a singular identity. It exists in this in-between space, sometimes recognizable, sometimes dissolving into texture.

This mirrors how I approach storytelling through sound. I’m interested in creating sonic worlds where meaning is not fixed but constantly evolving. The way a voice is processed can completely shift the emotional weight of a piece—when a phrase is slowed down and stretched, it might evoke nostalgia or longing; when fragmented and layered, it might suggest multiplicity, memory, or even dissonance.

Ultimately, this fluidity reflects how we experience emotions, identity, and transformation in life. We are never just one thing—we exist in layers, in echoes, in the spaces between what is spoken and what is left unsaid. The Songweaver is an exploration of that ambiguity, inviting listeners to engage not just with the music but with their own interpretations and emotional landscapes.

Trust & Breakout draws from classical, jazz, and electroacoustic traditions, balancing live instrumentation with meticulous sound design. Strings and saxophones add warmth, while voice fragments and intricate arrangements blur the lines between composed and improvised. How do you navigate this tension between the composed and improvised?

For me, composition and improvisation are deeply interconnected. My process often begins with spontaneous recordings—whether it’s playing the piano in a studio, capturing sound design experiments, or layering textures without a clear endpoint in mind. These initial improvisations create a reservoir of raw material that I later revisit, edit, and sculpt into a more defined structure.

A good example is the track Trust, which started in 2022 as a simple piano improvisation. I found a chord progression I connected with, recorded it, and then gradually built around it adding saxophone layers, stripping elements away, and reshaping the arrangement. In the end, the track became a fusion of four different pieces, blending elements from past sessions into something entirely new. This process of self-citation—reusing, resampling, and recontextualizing my own material—is a recurring theme in my work.

Improvisation allows me to generate ideas freely, while composition is where I refine and distill them. I see it as a cyclical process: creating material without constraint, then selecting and reshaping the most resonant elements. The tension between the two keeps the music fluid, constantly evolving rather than feeling fixed or predetermined.

Collaboration plays a central role in your practice, yet your sonic identity always remains distinct. How do you navigate the tension between dissolving into a shared language and maintaining a sense of authorship? How did these collaborations shape the vision of innovation and expand the sonic landscapes?

I don’t think much about authorship in a rigid sense. For me, collaboration is about dialogue,
creating a shared space where different voices and ideas can interact freely. The process is fluid: sometimes I’ll start with an idea that gets transformed by a collaborator, or other times, I’ll take elements from a session and completely rework them afterward. What I find most exciting is how collaboration brings unexpected textures and perspectives into my work. For example, recording with a saxophonist or a vocalist might begin as a straightforward session, but later, I’ll strip away the original instrumental context and rebuild the track around their performance. This approach allows me to integrate external influences while still shaping the final outcome in a way that feels true to my sonic language.

Ultimately, collaboration expands the boundaries of my sound rather than diluting it. It introduces new possibilities—different playing styles, tonalities, and energies. The way I process and recontextualize these elements ensures that the core of my artistic identity remains intact. It’s less about control and more about curation, knowing when to let go and when to bring everything into focus.

What are the imperceptible details in your music that hold the weight— something buried within the texture that only you know is there?

A lot of these hidden details come from self citation—subtle references to past recordings or personal moments that might go unnoticed by the listener but carry significance for me. It could be a voice sample lifted from an old Instagram video, a sound repurposed from an earlier track, or a texture that holds meaning only because I know its origin. These create a multi-layered world within the music, adding depth even if the listener isn’t consciously aware of them. It’s a way of embedding memory and narrative into the sonic landscape, making each piece feel connected to a larger, evolving story.

The EDM and synth worlds have evolved dramatically in recent years, with new technologies and languages emerging. How do you see your own sound evolving within this shifting landscape, and how do you stay true to your artistic vision while embracing these changes?

With AI and generative tools becoming more prevalent, we’re at a point where entire genres can be replicated algorithmically. Motown, UK garage, or even complex electronic textures can now be synthesized convincingly. But the nature of AI is that it operates on datasets, creating something that reflects the “median” or most conventional idea of a sound. In this sense, it flattens the nuances that make something truly original. Because of this, I think artistry is shifting more toward curation—the ability to make intentional choices, to juxtapose elements in ways that technology alone wouldn’t. The human signature lies in how we contextualize sound, selecting and arranging components to build something deeply personal and culturally resonant. For me, staying true to my vision means embracing new tools while ensuring that the emotional and conceptual depth of the work isn’t lost in automation.

Looking towards the future, what are some new territories or innovative approaches you’re excited to explore in your work? How do you envision pushing the boundaries of sound, and what role do you see innovation playing in the way music connects with culture and storytelling?

One of the directions I’m exploring is expanding music beyond just sound—creating a more immersive, multi-dimensional experience. Next year, I’m working on a publication that will accompany my music, adding a textual and conceptual framework to the sonic world. I’m interested in how print, text, and visual elements can extend the storytelling process, making the work feel more like a living, evolving ecosystem rather than a static album. More broadly, I see innovation not just as technological advancement but as a way of deepening the cultural and emotional impact of music. Whether it’s integrating new media, rethinking how music is experienced, or developing unconventional performance formats, I want to continue pushing towards a more holistic, interconnected artistic expression.

Listen to NR Sound Mix 054 Merlin Modulaw

In order of appearance

  1. Merlin Modulaw, Songweaver. Photography: Le Diouck
  2. Merlin Modulaw, Gessneralle Live. Photography: Lukas Saxer
  3. Merlin Modulaw, Gessneralle Live. Photography: Lukas Saxer
  4. Merlin Modulaw, Songweaver.
  5. Merlin Modulaw, Songweaver. Photography: Latoya Haguinatha Breu

Romeo Castellucci

A Fight Against Reality Itself

In conversation with NR, director and stage designer Romeo Castellucci speaks about one of his first performances, Cenno. A mysterious work staged only once in a flat in Rome in the early ’80s, it has since been difficult to trace in any concrete way. When asked about it, Castellucci remarks, “In Italian, the word cenno means a little gesture—it’s the minimal gesture. And probably, Cenno was literally a minimal gesture.”

This early experiment foreshadowed a career of theatrical productions that are less about performance in the traditional sense. Instead of a reenactment of narrative he offers something closer to a whisper, a procession of movements, or a thread of energy extracted from some of the most iconic operas and didactic tales. 

Some, like The Rite of Spring, are so complex that they challenge visual perception. Others, like Ma and La Passione, are more restrained, presenting not not much more than bodies on a stage. Yet what unites all these works is a distillation of reality itself. In capturing the narrative within form, Castellucci creates what he calls “a space in which the image calls the name of each spectator.” In this way, theatre for him is neither literature nor mere performance—it is a battlefield of aesthetics, a confrontation with reality itself.

What led you to study painting in Bologna? What were some values or ideas you formed during this period of study, and how did this go on to influence your later career in theater?

At the time, Bologna was the intellectual center of Italy—the most avant-garde city in terms of art and philosophy. It was a city on fire, as it was the most politically engaged, involving itself in these extreme fights. I was barely 18 years old when I arrived there.

Art history became my spinal structure, my intellectual foundation. The Renaissance and the study of Italian art history were disciplines that carried a kind of radicality. Instead of turning to political activism, I engaged in an artistic fight—a fight against reality itself. At every level, the experience of art is a battle and a combat with the very principles of reality. Studying the history of art, painting, and sculpture was the main food of my soul.

I never studied theater, but within the Accademia di Belle Arti, I began to develop an idea of theater from my engagement with performance art. There is a difference between theater and the performing arts. The first is the conception of time and space. Theater embraced an idea of fiction and falsehood—the fake as a discipline. In the end, I found theater much stronger than the performing arts. It’s a much more radical conception of life for me.

Then I started to study Greek tragedy. It was a kind of matrix, a philosophy, for me. Greek tragedy is not only an aesthetic—it’s not just archaeological stuff—it is really living in my flesh and in our society.

Your work pulls from some of the world’s most foundational myths and tragedies. On that note, how did you build your literary foundation?

My study was independent. I was alone at school, and it was very personal. But then I was lucky to meet an instructor, Giorgio Cortenova, who taught the history of contemporary art. that orientate my thinking on the language of the “form”. But for the rest, I was completely alone at school, without friends or companions. However, outside of school, I had a small group of friends, and together we created our first theatrical experience. Previously, I had worked on many installations—paintings, sculptures, and performances. But somehow, without any deliberate decision or choice, theater became my primary activity.

I never chose theater—it happened by chance. In fact, I originally studied visual arts. Despite this, I still feel that, in a way, I am working in visual art.

Theater, for me, can sometimes be a very boring job. As a spectator, when I was young, it was always terrible and so strange. I’m in the middle of it now, in the blind spot, so I cannot judge my work. But very often, theater is just boring. That’s not a snobbish statement—I’m just being honest, as a spectator.

I’m curious, then, where you found the potential in theater if your experiences were always met with boredom?

Not always, but frequently, I was met with boredom. Because normally, theater—both then and even now—is seen as a second branch of literature, a way to illustrate it. But theater has nothing to do with literature. Theater is the art of the flesh.

During my studies, I came across Antonin Artaud. He was a French philosopher and radical thinker. He wrote and worked in the first half of the 20th century and died in 1948. That encounter changed my life.

And music changed my life as well. When I was an adolescent, I heard The Rite of Spring performed live. It was a shock—something really violent. At that age, we need violence, and I found that violence in a form. That, for me, was a revelation.

I discovered that aesthetics could be a battlefield. You can fight through aesthetics, and that was far more interesting than the so-called political fight.

How did your first performance, Cenno (1980), come to be? I had quite a hard time finding any information about it, but I think that’s the nature of it.

It’s very mysterious because it was done one time, in one flat, for one spectator. And then it stopped.

Nevertheless, it’s the foundation of my work. This spectator was—he’s now passed—the Italian critic Giuseppe Bartolucci. Afterwards, he became our friend. It was so important to do Cenno only for him, that one time, in that flat in Rome.

It was very important because the work was terrible, but the discussion was very rich. I remember the discussion better than the show.

Could you share a bit about what the performance was about and the discussion afterward?

I have almost forgotten. It was some mysterious images with strange characters, almost without words. I don’t remember. It’s a bit confusing, even in my mind. In fact, it was something between performance and theater, but it’s difficult to try to describe to you what it was.

I can say something else about Cenno: in Italian, the word cenno means a little gesture—it’s the minimal gesture. And probably, Cenno was literally a minimal gesture.

The performance was done with the founding members of the theater company Socìetas Raffaello Sanzio. In the text The Theatre of Socìetas Raffaello Sanzio (2007), regarding the development of Tragedia Endogonidia, I felt such a cohesion of voice in the company. What were those early years with the company like?

We shared different aspects of the language of theater. Claudia [Castellucci] was engaged in the writing of texts, so at that time, she was basically a dramaturge. Chiara [Guidi] was more focused on how to pronounce the word. I did all the rest—the set, direction, and so on.

I have to mention Scott Gibbons, my musical collaborator. I still work with him, and it’s a strong relationship. He’s very similar to me, like a brother. When we work together, we don’t need to speak or explain things.

You had been practicing from the 1980s until the early 2000s with Socìetas Raffaello Sanzio. Where did the energy come from?

This is a fair question because, without fire, you cannot create work. I refuse the idea of profession—when you are a professional, you can do the “right” thing, but that is not art. It’s decoration.

I try to surprise myself all the time. I believe deeply in the principle of contradiction. I want to work against myself. Every time I create something, it is both the first time and the last time. Therefore, it has to be a surprise. The stage is the most bizarre and strange place in the world. If you are not able to feel the strangeness of this place… it’s strange.

For me, you have to reinvent everything every time—not only concerning issues like material, topic, gesture, and aesthetics, but even the necessity itself. You have to ask yourself, What is the urgency? What is the necessity? What is the danger? I have to feel a danger because it’s a dangerous place. This is just my opinion, but if you are confident in your way of doing things, it doesn’t work.

[Regarding Socìetas Raffaello Sanzio,] we now work separately. Just after Tragedia Endogonidia, we split our beds. We still share the space “Teatro Comandini” in Cesena, but everyone has pursued their own personal work.

Moving into your more recent work, La Passione (2016): it seems like the performers, apart from the musicians, are not exactly actors. Who are they? Technicians?

There are no actors at all. They are technicians and real people who come from the city.

La Passione, which is Bach’s Matthäus-Passion, is a portrait of a city. It was first in Hamburg, then in Lisbon, and now it will be in Florence. The people on stage are real people—citizens of the city—each bringing their own experience.

In a way, it was not created to portray the passion of Saint Matthew or the gospel itself. Instead, it was the gospel as seen through a real person. The passion belonged to a real person, creating a kind of mirrored effect. So La Passione is not just the passion of Christ—it is also a reflection of the passion that exists in everybody in real life. The fact of having a body is a passion. That’s the main idea.

Your works do not simply remake a text but rather use it as a framework for theatrical exploration. What’s fascinating is how this approach allows for a transformation beyond strict interpretation.

When I’m facing a production—maybe something from tradition, La Passione, Hamlet, or so on—I don’t ask myself, “What does Hamlet mean for us?” Instead, I take the reverse perspective: “What do I mean for Hamlet?” Meaning myself, my place as a person, and my place as a spectator.

When I work, I always take the place of the spectator because a director is a spectator too. It changes the perspective—you are surprised every time. You don’t know what is going to happen.

But the most important thing is a question—a question that the spectator can interpret however they want. It’s just as important not to provide answers.

The question of the audience is always very important because it presents a reversed perspective of theater. What I do on stage is not an object or illustration; it is an experience that completely belongs to the spectator. 

It’s such a vulnerable position to be in as well, to know that your work is going to be held by all of these people.

Because I want the spectator—the audience—to have to finish my work. There is space for any kind of interpretation, even spaces that engage the imagination of the spectator. My work on stage is never complete. I always leave open doors. There is also a lack of narration and logic—a kind of hole in the representation.

There is a space in which the image call the name of each spectator.

What do you say to audiences who come to you later asking for answers?

I ask the spectator what they think. To tell you the truth, that is more important. Of course, I have a dramaturgy—I have ideas, a concept, a vision of the form, and so on. But it’s much more interesting to ask a spectator what it means for them. There are many, many different interpretations, even completely opposite ones.

That is good news. You can feel whatever you want because your body is diving into an experience. It’s a good reflection of society when there isn’t a singularity of thought.

Sometimes it’s not easy because the spectator to have to make a decision. The spectator then takes on a kind of responsibility when viewing. There has to be a choice, a strong one.

Now, in a way, we are spectators 24 hours a day. Without any choice, without any question, we just eat pictures. But at the theater or in an art gallery, you have to make a choice. That makes the difference.

With such a long career, I’m sure you’ve been presented with many new technologies. In the Die Zauberflöte (2018) grotto, the set was created with parametric design and CNC. This display is particularly breathtaking in scale and detail. What are your considerations when presented with a new technology?

I use every kind of technique, every kind of technology that exists. I am not superstitious about technology—I just use what I need in the moment. Very often, technology can turn out to be a kind of trivial gadget or something simply demonstrative. 

I worked with the architect Michael Hansmeyer. We had a very good exchange while working on the Grotto. It was large-scale. It wasn’t just an aesthetic choice—everything was based on symmetry, like a mirror (symmetry is a key theme for Mozart).

I did The Rite of Spring with 48 sophisticated programmed machines that performed a dance with bones dust in the air: it was bone ash from cows is used in agriculture as a fertilizer.  Instead of dancers, I created a precise choreography with machines suspended from the ceiling. They were able to spread dust into the air. They created something like spirals, jets, explosions, falls, forming shapes and dancing to Stravinsky’s music. 

That performance involved only machines. There were no people on stage. It was very complicated—we spent a month and a half just programming it to be in sync. That project was the biggest technological push I’ve made. But when I work with machines I deal with the ghosts they represent.

There is a very different emotional impact when you see machines versus a human body.

A machine is frightening because it does one thing with absolute precision—it has a function. There is no space for humanity and no space for doubt. And that is what makes it so unsettling.

The opposite of that is the presence of an animal. I often work with animals—not to command them to do something precise, but because they enter the stage as animals. They are pure beings. They represent chaos. It’s another kind of inhumanity, the opposite of a machine.

An actor is, at the same time, both an animal and a machine.

Your performance Μa (2023) unfolds within the Eleusis archaeological site, a space imbued with the weight of the Eleusinian Mysteries. We discussed earlier how mythology can serve as a framework for building another narrative. In that vein, how do you approach and manage a site so charged with history, mythology, and cultural memory?

It sometimes happens that I get to work in very special places. For example, here at the archaeological site in Eleusis, where the cults of the Mother took place. I’ve also done work in Geneva’s Saint-Pierre Cathedral or the Palais des Papes in Avignon, among many others. In every special place, we must consider the place itself as a character, not just a venue.

You have to work with the phantoms that are present. It’s better to engage with the memory of the space—to become close to it and work with it. Otherwise, you are dead, because the place is much stronger than you. So, we have to deal with their memory, as characters endowed with spirit.

The venues can speak and listen. In the end, the main creative choices will come from the spaces themselves. You just have to listen carefully to the ghosts of the space.

A bit of a silly question, but do you have any interaction with pop culture?

Sure. From a certain point of view, it’s inevitable. We exist in this world. I am not a hermit—I go to the supermarket, I use the internet, I listen to the radio, and I like some of it.

I have no prejudice. If something is good, it’s good. I like Schubert, but I also enjoy pop songs when they have a strange form that can catch my attention. 

In order of appearance

  1. Romeo Castellucci, Cain, overo Il Primo Omicidio. Composer: Alessandro Scarlatti. Premiere: 2019. Photography: Luca Del Pia.
  2. Romeo Castellucci, Hey Girl!. Premiere: 2006. Festival: Festival d’Avignon 2007. Photography: Steirischerherbst/Manninger.
  3. Romeo Castellucci, Hey Girl!. Premiere: 2006. Festival: Festival d’Avignon 2007. Photography: Steirischerherbst/Manninger.
  4. Romeo Castellucci, Genesi. From the Museum of Sleep. Premiere: 1999. Photography: Luca Del Pia.
  5. Romeo Castellucci, Genesi. From the Museum of Sleep. Premiere: 1999. Photography: Luca Del Pia.
  6. Romeo Castellucci, Salzburger Festspiele 2024 / Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Don Giovanni. Premiere: July 28, 2024. Photography: Monika Rittershaus.
  7. Romeo Castellucci, Mystery 11. Eleusis 2023. Photography: John Kouskoutis.
  8. Romeo Castellucci, Mystery 11. Eleusis 2023. Photography: John Kouskoutis.
  9. Romeo Castellucci, Don Giovanni. Photography: Monika Rittershaus.
  10. Romeo Castellucci, Parsifal. Opera House: De Munt / La Monnaie. Premiere: 2011. Photography: Bernd Uhlig.
  11. Romeo Castellucci, Parsifal. Opera House: De Munt / La Monnaie. Premiere: 2011. Photography: Bernd Uhlig.
  12. Romeo Castellucci, Die Zauberflöte. Opera House: De Munt / La Monnaie. Premiere: September 18, 2018. Photography: Bernd Uhlig.

Mesura

Mesura and architecture that returns to genius loci 

Heritage is the guiding force behind Mesura’s work. Inspired by the Roman concept of genius loci, the Barcelona-based architecture studio is drawn to places rich with history—UNESCO heritage sites, towering castles, or even the discarded stones of Gaudí’s Sagrada Família. Working within the spaces history has left to modernity, Mesura brings together fragments of the past with contemporary techniques, creating projects that span the globe.

The studio emerged during a turbulent time in Spain’s architectural landscape. In the early 2010s, amid the recession, a few university friends with a shared design philosophy began to work together in a small space in Barcelona. Their turning point arrived when they entered the EUROPAN 2011 competition, choosing the historic walls of Dubrovnik as their site. What started as an experiment soon became a defining moment—designing with history, rather than just around it.

That realisation shaped Mesura’s identity. Rather than following the traditional model of a singular architect at the helm, the studio’s co-founders— Benjamín Iborra, Carlos Dimas, Jaime Font Furest, Jordi Espinet, and Marcos Parera Blanch—built a space for collaboration, research, and a reimagined approach to design.

In conversation with NR, Mesura co-founder and partner Benjamín Iborra discusses some of the studio’s defining projects. 

Were you always called Mesura?

We just started doing stuff together, but then at some point we said, ‘okay, there’s a little money coming in. So, we need to have a name just to receive the money.’ So, we first used the name of the street that we were based on. It was just a number: a pre-name without any thought behind it. We were called 311 … something ridiculous like that. 

In 2015, the name Mesura was born. The word ‘mesura’ has a lot of meanings. For us, the first important thing was a name that could be understood in many languages. Next, it had to make sense in terms of being something specific to measurement: working in architecture is very technical. 

Nevertheless, what’s most important is what it means to work ‘with mesura’ in Spanish! It means to work with respect. It’s not about doing whatever comes to mind; it’s about taking the time to think things through—twice, three times, even four times. 

Your research is very visually oriented, almost like a pictorial collage of your thinking and the resources you encounter. Walk me through how you start this process: Where do you first go for references? Who are some of the people you interact with to immerse yourself in the environment?

We believe it’s much more interesting to see the process and not just the final result. We really enjoy it! We have this passion for using graphic design and narrative to explain process. At the beginning, we did it just for pleasure. In fact, it happens to be pretty unprofitable because it takes a lot of time. But eventually, we realized that when we spend to genuinely show what we do, the money comes back. 

We like to focus on our communication, but we actually do this in our daily life— we look to research, to investigate, to make models, to try things out.  It’s an atmosphere that we’re generating at Mesura. You’re not just seeing a result: you’re seeing research, trials, and a mix of things that go beyond architecture that are related to design and to culture.

The people that work in-house have great abilities and are very cultured.  We’re involved in universities and there’s always people coming in and out of the studio.  We do these things called ‘Tuesday Talks’ where we bring people that are not architects to the studio every Tuesday to talk about whatever they want. It’s ideas that are totally crazy that contribute to the culture of the people in Mesura. It gets us thinking beyond architecture and to have an open mind in all our research.

To create the Aesop Diagonal store in Barcelona, Mesura sourced KM0 (Kilometer Zero) stones, originally from the Montjuïc quarry.  You describe deploying a “pseudo-archaeological effort” when found the stones that eventually would make its way into the final design. What does “pseudo-archeological” mean and what did this process look like?

We ended up calling this process ‘creative anastylosis:’ I’m going to explain more later. And we’re not just using zero-kilometer stone, we’re reusing zero-kilometer stone. 

For Aesop, we started from [Barcelona’s] local identity. We learned that, whenever they create a stone for La Sagrada Familia that’s not perfect, they throw it back into the mountain. Our first idea was: let’s use these discarded stones to represent the identity of the city. But obviously, La Sagrada Familia, in the name of Gaudi, said, ‘no, this is not possible. You cannot use stones from Gaudi to do your shop.’ 

At first it was a pity, but it opened up another opportunity. La Sagrada Familia was initially done with stone from the Montjuïc quarry in Barcelona: here, a lot of stones were extracted to create buildings in the city. This quarry was closed 60 years ago because it wasn’t possible to extract more from the little mountain. La Sagrada Familia was originally started with these stones, but in the sixties they also stopped. 

We called a lot of people who worked with stone in Catalonia to ask if they had stones from Montjuïc. We ended up finding a family business that, for the past 30 years, had been gathering Montjuïc stones from all the buildings that have been demolished and gathering them in their quarry. 

They said, ‘come to our quarry and just see whatever we got!’ That was amazing. Here is the part about ‘creative anastylosis’. After a historical building has been demolished, anastylosis is the art of gathering those pieces and remaking it in the exact same way. For us, it’s a creative anastylosis, because what we’re placing the stones in a unique, creative way for new purpose. 

It was very interesting because I think we found about 100-200 stones in this quarry. We didn’t need that much so we decided to be more ambitious and use the ones that have memory.  Not just a square block, but one with a shape that you recognize because it has been in another building before. 

The pieces that had some “memory” of an architectural past was a striking choice. It’s interesting to hear that the first approach involved The Sagrada Familia. It has such a strong architectural language—it’s extremely recognizable and particular. 

You’re right. We saw the thrown-out Gaudi pieces, modelled them, and then arranged them for the store. In the end, we had a proposal for a concept. It was really powerful. It had a lot of shape, color, and character… maybe too much. But we’ll never know!

Regarding the Sundial House, given its unique location in the parks of AlUla in Saudi Arabia, what was the client’s motivation for building here? Has it been built?

Our first project in Saudi Arabia was done maybe more than 10 years ago. It was a retail shop in Riyadh. It was one of our very first projects. Since then, there have been many paths that have taken us back to Saudi Arabia. It’s a country that’s changing a lot and we want to be part of this change. They are developing projects in a good way while being respectful to the space. 

One of the projects Saudi Arabia proposed was to create 100 houses. This was a competition, where the result was 100 designs created by all different architects in different places within Alula. We won and received an amazing site: it was a mountain carved out from the inside. With it, we proposed a house that made the niche into a unique courtyard within nature while working with raw materials like the sand and the rock that surround the space. 

We hope that this is going to be done in the future, but we still don’t know. It’s in standby at the moment.

This house in Alula touches on how privacy and protection are two essential aspects of Saudi houses. How did these values end up in the architecture?

Our approach goes back to that initial project in Dubrovnik. Our first intuition was to create respectful design. This meant not competing with the space but observing it. Also, often working on tight budgets taught us to work with what’s available and appreciate vernacular architecture. In the north, buildings invite sunlight in; in the south, they protect against it. There’s some very basic and logical decisions that modern architecture has moved away from. In the end, these logical decisions can greatly reduce the energy that the building should consume. 

Protection from sand and heat often results in enclosed, private, inward-facing spaces, which then influence cultural norms. There’s a deep connection between architecture, environment, and lifestyle. We believe in the concept of genius loci—the Roman idea of a place’s protective spirit. Not every project needs to follow this path, especially in urban settings without a lot of historical context. But in places like Jeddah and Riyadh, where we work alongside heritage architecture, respect for the environment is essential.

Ultimately, we’re continuously learning from the past, seeking the right balance between contemporary design and vernacular traditions. That middle ground is where we find meaningful, sustainable architecture.

In terms of preservation, when describing the Peratallada Castle project, Mesura said: “While, like the artwork, architecture has aesthetic and cultural value (it makes us reflect concepts and see things differently), it can never escape its functionality.” I’m interested in a moment during this project where you felt this tension most—between historical preservation and modern utility.

I’m glad you asked about this project—it was one of our first. What was realized was the landscape project with the swimming pool. Although there were concepts made, we didn’t end up touching the castle itself which held the historical parts.

Functionality in this project started with material choices. “Peratallada” comes from piedra tallada—literally “carved stone.” The village was built from the very quarry where the castle’s stone originated. We went to a specialist to understand the castle’s history. From the outside, everything might look equally old and worth preserving. Nevertheless, the expert revealed some stones dated back to 200 BC, while others were just 50 years old. 

Our initial approach to the landscape project, considering the budget we had, was to work with local stone. We went to people in a nearby town that worked with the material. Like we discovered later on, they had a lot of leftover stones in their quarry from a previous project. 

In Casa Ter, located in Baix Empordà, you built a “Catalan vault.” Why did you choose this typology of structure? What were some of the technical challenges you encountered while working on it?

The site is incredibly beautiful, so we wanted the project to feel calm, grounded, and not aggressive. To do this, we created a single-story structure, with long, extending horizontal walls that connected to the landscape. But the client was set on having a second floor to capture views of the sea.

The Catalan vault became the perfect solution for two reasons. First, it allowed for a smooth transition between the ground and the next floor up—rather than a stark, boxy structure. Second, it honored the idea of genius loci, protecting the spirit of the place.

This project made us realize how important of a decision the vault was, not just in terms of its form, but also in its techniques. It’s the kind of thing that will be lost if architects stop pushing to have them used in their projects. When we saw an old, expert artisan executing this vault technique, and alongside him was a young kid learning the craft, we understood that by incorporating this method, we weren’t just building—we were helping this skill get passed from generation to generation.

Technically, the vaulting process is a highly specific local tradition, typically done by layering locally made ceramic pieces in a way that creates structural integrity. However, we pushed it further by using an atypical shape. Instead of the conventional vault, we created a half dome. It was creating something new while still rooted in tradition.

The materials were equally important. From the start, we committed to using local ceramic and stones from the nearby River Ter—hence the name, Casa Ter. The entire process was beautiful, balancing the old with the new in a way that felt both respectful and innovative.

Credits

  1. Mesura, Vasto Gallery. 2023. Photography by Salva López.
  2. Mesura, Aesop Diagonal. 2024. Photography by Maxime Delvaux.
  3. Mesura, Sundial House. Photography by Beauty & The Bit / Alba de la Fuente.
  4. Mesura, Peratallada. 2016. Photography by Salva López.
  5. Mesura, Casa Ter. 2019. Photography by Salva López.

All images courtesy of Mesura

Tati au Miel

Through the Veil: Tati au Miel’s Sonic Alchemy

Enter the transcendent realm of Tati au Miel, the artistic persona of Tania Daniel. A true multidisciplinary whose practice spans sound, performance, visual art, and technology; Tati au Miel masterfully weaves narratives that explore transformation, identity, and renewal, all while challenging conventional norms. Their practice, deeply informed by spirituality and introspection, bridges the tangible and the ethereal, inviting audiences to navigate the delicate interplay between the personal and the collective, the physical and the digital.

From their debut project, The Exorcism of Tania Daniel, which set the tone for their introspective explorations, to the dreamlike audio-visual installations of Rêverie and immersive performances like Formations for Eternity, from Seed to Skin, The Fantastical World of Tati au Miel, the artist reflects a commitment to introspective themes, experimental soundscapes and evocative visuals. An invitation to experience a world that is both deeply personal and universally resonant.

In this conversation with NR, Tati au Miel delves into the inspirations, challenges, and philosophies that fuel their ever-evolving artistic practice. They reflect on the courage required to embrace vulnerability, the intricate relationship between technology and humanity, and their pursuit of turning the ephemeral into something timeless. Discover an artistic vision that transcends boundaries, resonates with the soul, and redefines how we perceive and feel the world around us.

The name Tati au Miel evokes a sense of nurturing quality and creates a contrast with the complex or raw topics tackled within the work. How did it come about?

So interesting because I hadn’t thought of it that way before, as nurturing or creating contrast with the complexity of my work. It actually came about quite naturally. My name is Tania Daniel, and Tati au Miel feels like an evolved version of myself, a reinterpretation of my name. For years, people have called me Tati, and being French Carribean, the association with honey felt intuitive. Honey has a symbolic energy tied to deities and nurturing qualities, so when the name came to me, it just clicked. It wasn’t something I overthought or deliberately planned, it simply felt right.

Your practice spans across sound, visual art, performance, and technology, often blurring the lines between disciplines. How do you navigate the intersections of these mediums, and how does each influence or challenge the others in your creative process? Is there a particular moment or experience where you felt one medium truly transformed or expanded the possibilities of another?

I’ve always approached my work through sound and a sonic lens, which might stem from my struggle with words and writing. Sound feels so immediate and sensory to me. Even though I was never formally trained as a musician, DJing when I was younger became my way into sound creation.

When I was younger, I spent a lot of time sewing and designing costumes, which I think influenced my creative process. For example, I would make music and listen to it while sewing, letting the two practices feed into each other. Over time, I’ve come to see different mediums as having distinct energies that complement one another.

Recently, I had a vivid experience where one medium transformed another. For an exhibition in Canada, I created a dark chiffon fabric cabin and performed inside it. The physicality and mood of being immersed in that installation directly influenced the sound and performance. Now, the recording is displayed alongside the piece, creating a dialogue between the two.

For me, it’s always about exploring how different works can affect one another and holding space for the energy they create together. Even if it feels abstract at first, the interplay between mediums becomes clear when experienced as a whole.

How would you describe the central themes or philosophies that guide your practice, and how do you see these evolving over time?

I approach art from a pure, almost childlike spirit. Whenever I create, I feel genuinely happy and excited, even if the sound itself is described as dark. It usually comes from a place of deep introspection and playfulness.

Living as an artist means I’m constantly encountering new themes and reflecting on them. My spirituality plays a significant role in this. I am Buddhist but grew up in a Christian family, so there are layers of influence that have followed me throughout my life. These references naturally find their way into my work. Over time, it feels less like I’m consciously choosing these themes and more like they’re embedded in my way of living and creating.

Your music often blends experimental soundscapes with emotive, personal narratives. How do you approach the process of composing music, and what role does storytelling play in shaping the sonic atmosphere of your work?

It’s a mix of everything. While revisiting my portfolio recently, I noticed recurring existential and philosophical themes. This wasn’t deliberate,it reflects my curiosity and the way art helps me explore questions without clear answers.

For me, art embodies feelings or understandings that don’t need finality. This is why my work often delves into timelessness or spirituality. I’m not drawn to linear narratives, like a love song or heartbreak story. Instead, I focus on the energy of emotions, like the essence of love, rather than its storyline. Experimental music allows for this fluidity,it doesn’t have to be defined or linear. It exists as a spectrum of ideas and emotions that connect in unexpected ways.

Rêverie, a state of being lost in one’s thoughts or daydreams. Rêverie weaves together the sonic, physical, and digital realms through a series of interconnected sculpture, sound, and virtual pieces. How do these diverse elements come together, and what’s the creative story behind them?

Rêverie was a deeply personal project and my first solo exhibition, which made it even more exciting. The idea developed gradually during a residency at World Creation Studio in Montreal, a space that has been a long-time supporter of my work.

For this project, I wanted to try something new, so I decided to work with ceramics for the first time and explore how they could integrate with extended reality. I created ceramic sculptures, some of which I 3D-scanned to exist both physically and virtually. 

The exhibition space was designed to feel immersive and dreamlike. Visitors entered a fog-filled room where they encountered sand typography created by a friend, sculptures placed throughout the space, and a soundscape I composed. There was also an interactive sound sculpture, a chime made from 3D-printed objects. Using a motion sensor, visitors could play the chime, creating their own sounds and engaging with the installation.

The project’s title, Rêverie, reflects its dreamlike quality and the exploration of realms between physical and digital, tangible and intangible. It was a way for me to blend technology and materiality, creating spaces that felt both personal and expansive.

Your music, such as in tracks like My Heart, incorporates a distinct fusion of electronic, experimental, and organic elements. How do you balance these diverse sonic textures, and what does the blending of genres represent within your broader artistic vision?

For My Heart, the process began when Cecilia, the singer, sent me vocals and piano tracks. I stripped everything back and built the song around those elements. Even though I didn’t initially know the lyrics, I felt connected to their energy.

When blending genres, I approach it similarly to how I DJ. Since I started making music through DJing rather than formal training, my process is rooted in curiosity and experimentation. My sound naturally leans experimental, even when I try for something more club-oriented.

Over the past few years, my Tati au Miel project began to feel heavier and more intricate, which led me to start a new side project, Haitian Prince of Music. This project allowed me to explore different sounds,drum-driven, ambient, and inspired by artists like Boards of Canada. It helped me realize I can explore any genre as long as I give it the right context.

This freedom excites me. Whether under Tati au Miel or another alias, I can push boundaries and create across genres without feeling confined to one style.

Many of your projects seem to challenge conventional formats of performance or art. Can you discuss how you approach breaking traditional boundaries, and what inspires you to create in such multidisciplinary ways?

The first thing that comes to mind is when someone asks, “Oh, you’re an artist? What do you do?” and I say I do more than one thing. Their reaction is often, “You can’t do that.” I hate that response because it’s 2025, we live in a time with access to so many tools and opportunities. It feels like a calling to push boundaries and explore new ways of creating.

I think of that expression, “Our ancestors ran so we could walk.” We’re in a moment where we don’t need to limit ourselves to replicating what already exists. Personally, I feel driven to take untraditional routes and challenge myself with each project.

Over the past four years, since becoming a full-time artist, I’ve made it a point to include an element of curiosity or learning in everything I do. Whether it’s experimenting with a new medium or diving into an idea’s roots, I constantly strive to create work that moves beyond conventional frameworks.

With technology evolving so quickly, the possibilities feel endless. Tools that were once difficult to access are now at our fingertips, and I’m excited to embrace that momentum to reimagine how art and performance can exist.

Your work often explores the intersection of the personal and the collective. How do you navigate the balance between your personal identity and the themes you aim to communicate to the audience, particularly in collaborative works?

I think there’s something inherently communal about being human. While my identity is specific,I’m Haitian Canadian, trans, and able-bodied, sharing who I am creates connections with others, even if we don’t share the same background.

For example, practicing Zen Buddhism has deeply influenced my perspective. Over the past two years, I’ve attended silent retreats and visited temples, especially in New York and Vancouver. What I love about Zen is its openness and communal nature, you meet people from all walks of life who share the same values. That sense of shared understanding mirrors how I present my work. Those who resonate with it will connect, no matter who they are.

That said, one challenge I’ve faced as an artist is being tokenized as a Black artist. While I’m proud of my identity and think it’s important to share, I don’t want my work to be reduced to that lens. This has motivated me to push my practice further, creating complex, layered pieces that can be appreciated for their depth and artistry beyond labels tied to my identity.

Can you take us through your current residency at MONOM, the renowned spatial sound studio and listening space in Berlin? What specific projects or ideas are you exploring there, and how does the space’s unique focus on spatial audio influence your creative process?

I’ve been at MONOM for a few days now, and it’s already been such a rewarding experience. This residency is unique because the team reached out to collaborate with artists, creating a piece together through discussions and shared ideas. That approach felt very natural for me, as I tend to develop work intuitively after being in a space and sensing its energy.

In our initial conversations, we discussed themes like spirituality, which often appear in my work. As I began working, the piece started to take shape as a kind of prayer. It’s inspired by wind, silence, white noise and the idea of a slow-building listening session that invites people to sit with the energy of the space and immerse themselves in the sound.

For me, this project is about being present and responsive to the space and the people around me. Even when performing live, I adapt based on the soundcheck or the energy of the venue. Spaces like MONOM allow me to explore this dynamic fully, crafting something that feels rooted in the moment.

With regard to spatial influences, The Akhet Edizione performance at Fondazione Casa Morra is part of a larger showcase in Naples. What role do you feel the venue and its historical significance play in shaping the energy and message of your performance? How does this specific performance engage with the concept of time, space, and place, especially within the context of Akhet, which suggests a moment of transition or creation?

That performance was my favorite show to date. Interestingly, my previous favorite was my first performance in Milan. I feel deeply connected to Italy, it has a unique energy I always tap into. The Italian electronic scene is incredibly supportive of avant-garde and unconventional work, and the audiences are a perfect balance of curiosity and openness.

The venue, Fondazione Casa Morra, was extraordinary. It’s a beautiful museum, and I had the privilege of staying there before the performance. This gave me time to immerse myself in the space and its history. Naples itself brought its own energy to the performance. The city’s chaotic charm reminds me of Mexico City, where I lived for a few years, and I’m drawn to that kind of vibrancy.

The performance took place on a grand staircase, and I felt compelled to wear a costume and mask. I hadn’t performed with a mask in a while, but doing so helped me channel the energy of the space and created a sense of separation between myself and the performance. This allowed me to fully embody the moment.

The acoustics, the historical weight of the venue, and the energy of the crowd all came together in a way that felt transcendent. Listening back to the recording, I hardly recognized my voice,it was so specific to that time and place. It’s performances like these that remind me why I create. They inspire me to continue tailoring each performance to the unique energy of the moment.

Biraddali Dancing on the Horizon documents a process of ancestral, intergenerational learning. Can you elaborate on the significance and origins of this work?

This film was created by my friend and collaborator, Bhenji Ra, a performer and movement artist from Australia and the Philippines. Biraddali refers to a term used by the Tausug of the Philippines, a celestial being that resembles a woman with wings and supernatural beauty. In the film, Bhenjilearns a pre-Islamic dance of the Tausug people of the Sulu Archipelago and the eastern coast Bajau of Saba in the Philippines. The film portrays a ritual and the learning of this dance with her teacher and collaborator Sitti Airia Sangkula Askalani-Obeso.

The film weaves together movement, stunning landscapes, and traditional music. My sound work for the piece includes noise textures blended with music from the Bungalima Tausug Ensemble. It was an honor to contribute to this project, especially as Bhenjiand I have been collaborating on several performances over the past year.

When Bhenji approached me about scoring the film, she said she felt I could translate shadows and create a parallel realm through sound. That idea stayed with me throughout the process. The film is deeply rooted in cultural and spiritual resonance, and I aimed to honor that by incorporating both indigenous Filipino sounds and experimental elements.

This collaboration felt like a culmination of our previous work together. Bhenji’s expertise in movement and my focus on sound complemented each other, creating a rich interplay between frequencies and physical gestures.

Eternal and Sacred features a selection of pre-recorded mixes and live sets. The genres explored vary from electronic, experimental, industrial, classical, and jazz to ambient soundscapes. Can you elaborate on the existential vision behind the mix as well as the embodiment of this vision in the title?

Eternal and Sacred was a proclamation I made through a mix and live event. It brought together ten artists, who contributed mixes and performed for a radio showcase in New York. The event spanned an entire day, with performances and mixes streamed live.

One of the highlights was including M. Lamar, an artist whose work I deeply admire. M. Lamar blends gothic opera with themes of identity and transformation. Having him contribute a recorded performance for the event felt surreal, especially as I’ve been a fan of his music for so long.

The title reflects ideas close to my heart: timelessness, spirituality, and the creation of spaces that feel expansive yet grounded. The project allowed me to curate a collective experience where diverse genres and creative expressions could coexist.

The event was hosted at Montez Press Radio in Chinatown, New York, where people could listen throughout the day. Some performances were recorded live, adding to the ephemeral yet permanent nature of the project. The name Eternal and Sacred encapsulates the energy I wanted to evoke, a timeless, almost spiritual atmosphere. It remains one of my most fulfilling projects, and I hope to expand on it in the future.

From Seed to Skin explored ideas of transformation, skin, and identity. How do you use sound to symbolize processes of growth, decay, and renewal, and what role does sonic experimentation play in conveying these concepts? Could you elaborate on how your collaboration with Bhenji Ra shaped the overall concept, and how did each of you influence the other’s vision for this live performance?

That performance was the first collaboration between Bhenji and me, and it felt symbolic, like planting a seed. The performance we’re doing later this month is actually a continuation, almost like the third iteration of what began with From Seed to Skin.

The original performance took place in Mexico City during the Day of the Dead, which brought a powerful energy of renewal, death, and shifting perspectives. At the same time, there was a heightened awareness of ongoing genocide in the media, adding another layer of intensity to the work. Bhenji felt called to incorporate elements of Mexican mythology, particularly the god who is associated with transformation and is often depicted with two masks.

For this piece, I asked Bhenji to wear an older costume I had made called the Flesh Mesh. It’s a fabric printed with images of my own flesh, taken from a surgery, symbolizing the idea of a second skin. I had previously used it in other installations and performances, but in From Seed to Skin, it took on a new meaning of shedding and renewal.

The performance itself was deeply rooted in the present moment. I thrive on collaboration, and working with someone as intuitive and thoughtful as Bhenji was incredibly inspiring. Her vision brought in mythological and ritualistic elements, while I focused on sonic experimentation, creating sounds that felt raw and transformative.

Together, we were able to craft a piece that was reflective of growth, decay, and renewal, a work that resonated deeply with the themes we wanted to explore. It was a process of mutual inspiration, with each of us drawing on the other’s ideas and energy to create something profoundly layered and impactful.

In the performance and installation at Kurimanzutto Gallery, you both used your bodies as mediums of transformation. What role does physicality and embodiment play in your work, and how does it connect with themes of growth, decay, and renewal?

I love this question because physicality has become something I am increasingly curious about. 

This curiosity about embodiment is why I have always been drawn to performance. While I perform live music, I try to bring an intentional presence to the space, using my body to interact with the environment. Working with someone like Bhenji, who is so experienced in movement, has taught me so much about exploring my body’s role within performance.

I see embodiment as a way to leave a trace of myself in the work. Whether it is through a live performance, a physical gesture that remains, or a recorded element, I am fascinated by the idea of archiving and marking presence. It feels like an act of personal archaeology, leaving behind something meaningful while fully inhabiting the moment.

Formations for Eternity with Yesenia Rojas at Trans Pecos was a highly immersive live performance. How did you and Yesenia navigate the process of creating an experience that could engage the senses of the audience while also leaving space for introspection?

Yesenia is a close friend of mine. This performance was her first time doing something live, and it was exciting to collaborate on a project that felt so aligned with our shared interests. Both of us come from Caribbean descent, so themes of spirituality and ritual naturally emerged in our discussions. We envisioned the performance as “spiritual noise,” blending experimental sound with intentional, ceremonial elements.

We designed the environment to feel immersive and intimate, setting up four candles around us with the equipment placed in the middle. We faced each other while performing, surrounded by pillars of light, which gave the performance a cinematic quality. The setup became part of the experience, shaping the audience’s connection to the sound and creating a sense of timelessness.

This performance was the first under the Formations for Eternity name, and we both felt it had the potential to grow into an ongoing project. We are already discussing ways to expand it and record future performances. There is something deeply ritualistic about the way we approach these live sets, and it feels like a practice we want to explore further.

The term ‘eternity’ often evokes a sense of permanence, yet your performance seems to embrace the ephemeral. How do you reconcile these concepts, and how does it inform the way you craft live performances that are both fleeting and impactful?

I think it connects to what I mentioned earlier about leaving a trace. Even though live performances are ephemeral, there is something permanent in the impression they leave behind.

Over the years, I have become more selective about how I perform. Not every venue gives me the opportunity to fully realize my vision, but when I can, I think deeply about how to craft the experience. For me, it is about presence, being fully in the moment and creating something that resonates deeply, even if it is fleeting.

The kind of noise I work with often feels trance-like and timeless, as if it exists outside the boundaries of conventional time. I try to embody this quality in all my work. Whether it is through sound, lighting, or interaction with the space, I aim to create an experience that lingers in memory, even after the performance ends.

Ultimately, the reconciliation of eternity and ephemerality comes down to presence. By fully inhabiting the moment, I can create something impactful that leaves a lasting impression while embracing the fleeting beauty of live performance.

The Fantastical World of Tati au Miel series evokes a narrative-driven experience. In the second volume, ‘The Tale of The Vagabond,’ you create a world of migration, displacement, and transition. How do these themes resonate personally for you, and how do they manifest in the performance?

The Tale of The Vagabond emerged during a residency where I created a sculpture of a bird’s nest and performed alongside it. Even before starting the residency, I felt inspired to develop a character-driven story that leaned into fiction. The Vagabond is a human-bird hybrid, a metaphorical reflection of my life as a traveler and nomad.

This character embodies themes of being an outsider, someone without a fixed home. Growing up, the word “vagabond” was often present, sometimes even used as an insult in my Haitian upbringing, which added personal resonance to the concept. The bird imagery felt natural, symbolizing freedom, migration, and the fluidity of identity.

The narrative unfolds not through traditional storytelling but through installations and performances, each offering hints about the Vagabond’s existence and experiences. It allows me to explore deeply personal themes in a more tangible, relatable way, blending my abstract tendencies with a fictional framework.

How do you view the intersection of technology and sound in the Vagabond’s Altar

It functions as an altar for a fictional character, blending physical objects I created with 3D-scanned and AI-generated elements. Viewers can interact with the piece through AR, placing it in their environment and scaling it to explore its details at their own pace.

What excites me about AR is its ability to make art more accessible. Anyone with a mobile phone can experience the work intimately, creating their own personal connection. This was my first AR piece, and I am eager to explore how technology can allow art to exist anywhere while giving audiences the freedom to engage on their terms.

Your performance at Mutek Montreal was part of an experimental music festival. Can you describe how you approach live sets like this one, how do you balance the organic elements of performance with the technological aspects that are so integral to your work?

The performance at Mutek Montreal was the live audio-visual iteration of my exhibition Rêverie, as both happened simultaneously in the city. It took place in a 360-degree dome at the Society of Arts and Technology, with visuals projected across the space and surround sound immersing the audience.

Because I was working with VR during my residency, I integrated visuals from the VR project into the performance to complement the dome’s environment. The site-specific nature of the dome heavily influenced the experience. For example, I adapted my sound sculpture for live performance and incorporated technology like motion sensors to make the experience both interactive and immersive.

Performing at Mutek felt significant, especially since it was in my hometown and allowed me to explore new directions in combining XR technology with live performance. It was an exciting way to experiment with emerging mediums while staying true to my artistic voice.

The Chime with Motion Sensor is an innovative piece that functions both as a MIDI controller and a live instrument. Can you describe the concept behind this piece and how it explores the relationship between physical movement and digital sound creation? How does the motion sensor function as a tool for both performance and composition, and what does it reveal about the relationship between technology and the human body?

During a residency, I participated in a workshop on digital fabrication and sensors, which introduced me to motion sensors. That sparked the idea of incorporating them into a chime. The first version was part of an installation, featuring 3D-printed objects that moved but did not produce sound.

I later developed a smaller, portable version with acoustic elements like small bells alongside electronic components. The motion sensor triggers sounds, blending physicality and technology. This interplay creates a tactile, interactive experience where movement generates sound, making it feel intuitive and accessible.

The chime represents my ongoing curiosity about integrating movement and sound. It highlights the relationship between the body and technology, showing how physical gestures can directly shape the auditory experience.

With the growing prevalence of augmented and virtual reality, what potential do you see for these mediums in the future of live performance or art installation? How do they enable a new form of intimacy and immersion with your work?

I believe AR and VR are becoming increasingly integrated into art and performance, offering exciting possibilities for intimacy and immersion. For example, performing in a 360-degree dome with projections felt like a form of augmented reality, where the audience could step into a fully immersive world.

That said, I think it is crucial to make these technologies accessible and human-centric. I am less interested in creating work that requires heavy equipment like VR headsets and more focused on using technology to simplify and enhance experiences. Motion sensors, for example, allow for intuitive interactions without overwhelming barriers.

Ultimately, I see AR and VR as tools to expand how audiences connect with art, providing them with new ways to explore and engage while maintaining a sense of presence and immediacy. As I continue to experiment, I hope to find ways to merge these mediums seamlessly into my practice, making technology a complement to, rather than a replacement for, physical interaction.

Carousel is a fascinating blend of experimental music, visuals, and themes of emotional vulnerability. Can you walk us through the inspiration behind this piece? 

Many of the sounds in Carousel were initially created during The Tale of The Vagabond. The root inspiration for this project was the concept of ever-changing forms and the idea of recreating and reinterpreting my own work. I am a big believer in revisiting previous ideas and evolving them into something new, and Carousel embodies this approach.

The title itself evokes imagery of a carousel at an amusement park, with its whimsical, cyclical motion. This EP captures that energy, blending playful, childlike wonder with experimental sonic textures. For example, the first track, La Berceuse, uses vocal samples from my friend Embaci, and its title refers to a French lullaby, a song to soothe or put someone to sleep. The tracks often feel like lullabies spiraling into echoes, creating a dreamlike atmosphere.

Another influence was the Haitian literary movement known as Spiralism, which explores themes of timelessness, transformation, and the expansion of life. This philosophy deeply shaped the EP, blending ideas of childlike innocence with an abstract sense of infinite possibility.

Solar Return feels like a deeply introspective and cosmic exploration of time and transformation. Could you elaborate on the concept behind this project and how it relates to your personal and creative evolution?

Solar Return was one of my first projects, and it holds a special place for me. It includes some of my favorite tracks, which I still perform live. At the time, I felt an urgency to create and release work, it was driven by a chaotic energy and a sense of survival. I had a lot of ideas and felt the need to get them out into the world quickly.

Looking back, I see how my creative process has evolved since then. These days, I feel more grounded and patient. I no longer feel the same rush to release work and prefer to take my time refining and expanding my ideas. This shift feels like a natural progression as I have become more established in my practice.

The themes in Solar Return, transformation, cycles, and renewal, still resonate with me, but I am exploring them with a deeper sense of intentionality. Moving forward, I plan to revisit some of these earlier works in a deluxe edition, combining them with new visuals and creating a more expansive body of work.

In The Exorcism of Tania Daniel, you delve into the supernatural, ritualistic practices, and transformation. Can you describe the genesis of this work, and how the idea of an “exorcism” informs the emotional and sonic landscape of the piece? How does embodiment and physical interaction with sound manifest in this project, and what does it symbolize in the context of personal transformation and release?

As my debut project, The Exorcism of Tania Daniel was deeply rooted in themes of trance, possession, and release. The idea of an exorcism felt like a fitting metaphor for letting go and confronting the darker aspects of life. Growing up with Haitian heritage, I was influenced by voodoo rituals, where possession and exorcisms are integral parts of spiritual practice.

At the same time, the project drew parallels with modern rave culture and the way people describe the catharsis of dance and techno music. While some people interpreted the project through that lens, my intention was always more spiritual, highlighting the beauty in confronting and embracing the complexities of life.

This work planted the seed for my ongoing Tati au Miel projects. It established a foundation of exploring abstract, spiritual, and transformative themes. Even now, I am inspired by ideas of fog, veils, and shifting realms, both as visual motifs and as symbolic representations of life’s layers and transitions.

Looking toward the future, what themes or concepts are you most excited to explore in your upcoming works? How do you envision your practice evolving over the next few years, especially as technology continues to advance in art-making?

In recent years, my live performances have become more reflective of my evolving sound. I’ve started incorporating new instruments, like bells and the flute, into my work. Learning the flute has been an exciting challenge, it’s still new for me, but performing with it has been an empowering experience.

Moving forward, I plan to release a larger body of work. My goal is to create a full-length album with at least 12 to 15 tracks, combining elements from my past projects with new approaches I’ve been exploring. Taking my time to develop this album will allow me to craft something cohesive, intentional, and deeply personal.

As technology continues to advance, I’m excited to experiment with interactive and immersive elements in my work. Whether through AR, VR, or physical installations, I want to create experiences that are accessible, innovative, and grounded. My goal is to push boundaries while maintaining a sense of intimacy and connection.

This next phase feels like an opportunity to integrate everything I’ve learned so far while exploring new directions. It’s a balance of honouring my past work and embracing the unknown, all while staying true to the essence of my practice.

Listen to NR Sound 068 Tati au Miel
Watch Rêverie by Tati au Miel (Live 360) at MUTEK Montréal

Photography · Medar
All images courtesy of Tati au Miel.
Special thanks to plural artist management.

No_Stone

Beyond Sound: The Humanity in No_Stone’s Imperfect Balance  

No_Stone emerges as a raw and authentic dialogue between human complexities, sound, space, and identity. Rooted in Cairo’s underground music scene and shaped by the contrasting energies of Berlin and Barcelona, Assyouti and Jehia bring together their distinct yet complementary artistic visions, embracing imperfections, breaking boundaries, and redefining the underground.

Through their music, they navigate the tensions between chaos and harmony, energy and introspection, dissonance and connection. Together, they explore what it means to leave “no stone unturned,” with a reminder to remain human and real.

How did Cairos underground music scene act simultaneously as refuge and catalyst for both of your early artistic expressions? As your careers took you beyond Egypt, how did the clash between the raw energy of your upbringing and the more defined infrastructures of Berlin and Barcelona shape your evolving sound?

Assyouti: Cairo’s underground scene that had given birth to so many early important artists dissolved before I could even participate. By the time I started playing, there were just fragments left—parties here and there, but no cohesive movement. My early gigs were about trying to fit in, to play what I thought people wanted to hear. But I quickly realized my sound was “weird”, even in its most accessible form.
 That realization freed me. I stopped holding back. My last gig in Cairo before moving was pivotal—I played only what I loved. It was raw and honest, and for the first time, it resonated. That moment became my starting point. Moving to Berlin was transformative. There, artists are more respected, treated like professionals, and even given grants. In Cairo, we were seen as troublemakers. Berlin made me take myself seriously—not just as a DJ, but as a creative force. It helped me channel my creative output into something precise and intentional.


Jehia: My journey was different. I started my career after moving to Barcelona, long after leaving Cairo. Back home, the scene felt out of reach—age restrictions, limited access, and a general sense of cultural dissonance kept me away. But in Barcelona, the vibrant underground scene pulled me in. In Cairo, it was just for fun—b2b sets with Assyouti at house parties. Those moments were special—zero expectations, pure exploration. Barcelona’s innovative scene taught me to embrace my own artistic identity. My first solo gig, Primavera Sound, was a turning point. It made me realize I could take up space in this world and really express myself. That’s when I stopped holding back and fully leaned into the journey.

The creation of No_Stone brought two distinct yet complementary artistic visions together. Can you share the story of how these two paths crossed, and how shared visions for experimental, cross-genre music led to the formation of No_Stone?


A: I came to Berlin to study music. As part of my final assessment at school, I had to create an album and present it live at a venue. Initially, No_Stone was just an event to fulfill a requirement. I reached out to a club owner I knew and organized what I thought would be a one-off event. However, deep down I knew that it was only the start of something, it was undeniable that this had to evolve. Around the same time, Jehia was hosting events in Barcelona. We’ve always had similar tastes and I knew we were planning on booking many of the same artists. It felt natural to join forces. I called him and said, “Let’s do this together. Let’s expand it from two cities— Barcelona and Berlin—and create something bigger.


No_Stone has been described as a space that seeks the (im)perfect balance between introspective sounds and razor-sharp energy. What does this imperfect” balance mean to each of you, and how does it manifest in your collaborative process during live performances?

A: It’s the acknowledgment that perfection is unattainable—and that’s where the magic lies. It’s not about creating a perfect experience but about embracing the imperfections that make it human. Real.

J: Imperfection creates relatability, spontaneity, and authenticity. In live performances, especially B2Bs, this concept comes alive. We challenge each other, not to dominate but to elevate, and that interplay shapes the narrative.


How does the imperfection work in b2b performances? Your collaboration thrives on spontaneity and unpredictability, particularly during live b2b sets. How do you prepare for the unexpected in these moments, and how do your individual approaches to music shape the dynamic tension between?

J: Honestly, I usually struggle with b2bs because I prefer to prepare my sets thoroughly from start to finish. But with Assyouti, it’s a completely different process compared to others.
The last time we played together, we didn’t even discuss specifics—no genres, no strict plan. It just happened naturally. We only talked about the general flow of energy. But when we started the set, it felt seamless. There’s also this sweet challenge between us. It’s like a tug-of-war but in the best, most creative way possible.

A: Exactly. I think part of the magic is that we don’t prepare too much because we trust each other’s taste. That spontaneity keeps it exciting—like, “What’s he going to play now?” Even if we know each other’s music, it’s about when and how it’s played. My narrative might lead one way, and his might take a completely different turn. But by the end of the set—which is often the best part—we’ve settled into a flow that combines both our energies and we know where we’re going. The last time we played together, it was only an hour and a half—nothing compared to the 10+ hour sets we’ve done before. In those longer sets, things truly evolve. After the first couple of hours, we hit our stride and align perfectly. That’s when it gets really exciting.

J: Also, by the end of a set, you have less to lose. The crowd is already engaged, and you can afford to experiment more. You can mix the weirdest genres and take risks. For example, at our last set in Cairo, I played an Aphex Twin track—super emotional and serious. Then Assyouti dropped this ridiculous, playful pop remix over it. It was the most unexpected combination, but it worked. People went wild. It’s those moments of sudden synergy that make our b2bs so special.


Your music navigates the tension between dissonance and harmony, balancing chaos and order in a way that feels both structured and free-flowing. Is this a reflection of your internal states? Or is it something that emerges naturally as part of your creative process?


A: I think that too much of one thing—whether it’s energy or introspection—gets boring. Contrast keeps it stimulating and enhances the overall experience. Without balance, even the most energetic track can fall flat. My creative process grows by reading the crowd’s emotion. We naturally tap into that, sensing where the energy is and what the moment requires. Which is essential to learn how to contrast, either for preparing a narrative or just reacting spontaneously in the moment. In both cases you rely on intuition, which gradually develops by analyzing the room after “testing the water” and taking risks. But beyond that, it’s about creating a space where people feel free. Sometimes we mix tracks that feel right in the moment, even if they don’t create a perfect blend, but because we feel they’ll have a certain impact. That experimentation might not always be flawless, but it feels genuine and alive, making sense of the moment as it unfolds.

J: It’s natural. Every set is different because it’s shaped by the space, the time, and the energy of the moment. Of course my personal state influences the music I choose, but it’s more about creating a specific energy for a specific place, and that’s part of the creative process. And I think the experimentation itself becomes a kind of reflection. Even if there’s no set intention behind it, the act of blending, of trying something new, carries its own meaning. It’s about exploration and authenticity, not about delivering a polished, predictable performance. For me, that’s what makes a set interesting.

Genre-blending is central to your music, yet each genre retains its authenticity within the whole. How do you think such unconventional sound pairings enhance the narrative of the set?

A: When I started my career, I made a conscious decision not to box myself into one genre. If I had started that way, people would’ve expected me to stick to it forever. Now people know that I play across genres, and I love that freedom. It allows me to be invited to a variety of events, and I can tailor my sets to each space without losing my integrity.


My family was always into music. Growing up, I didn’t think about labels like “genre.” To me, music was music. That perspective naturally carried over into my work. I don’t see tracks as belonging to genres; I see them as individual pieces with their own identities. That makes it easier to mix seemingly unrelated styles without fitting into a specific box in order to build a narrative that flows and evolves, and I think that’s what really ends up resonating with audiences.

J: When I prepare a set, I focus on the emotional and energetic identities of each track rather than their genres. That approach opens up endless possibilities for unexpected combinations. Sometimes I’ll stumble upon a blend that I wouldn’t have imagined working, but when I play it, it makes perfect sense. Those moments of discovery are what excite me the most.
Can be quite a challenge too. My process often involves preparing music months in advance when possible. I build playlists for each gig, pulling tracks from Bandcamp, SoundCloud, YouTube—wherever. I think about the space, the people who will be there, even the staff working at the venue, and try to deliver a set specifically for that context.

A: If I have time to prepare, I can build something cohesive that still surprises me during the performance. Sometimes, though, you don’t have time to prepare—like when bookings come last minute or back-to-back. That’s when I rely on intuition and quick decisions. It can be messy, but those spontaneous moments often lead to unexpected blends or transitions that surprise even me. It reminds me why I love this—because it’s not just about playing music I’ve prepared but also responding to the energy of the room and truly connecting with people.

How do you balance the desire to push the boundaries of sound while ensuring that theres still an emotional connection with the audience? Do you ever feel theres a limit to how far you can experiment in a live setting? 


J: It depends on the space or event. At some festivals, I do hold back. Festivals attract a fluid audience. People come and go, often without knowing the artist. In those cases, I restrain the experimentation to an extent. But in spaces I feel at home, like certain clubs in Barcelona or Berlin, I truly let go and play the weirdest, hardest tracks. Those are the moments where I push myself to do things I didn’t even expect of myself.

A: Again, it’s all about balance. I don’t want to sell out by playing only what’s “safe”, neither do I want to always play chin-stroking intellectual stuff, I want to enjoy myself and connect with the crowd. If I play something too abstract and it doesn’t land, it ruins the vibe for me as much as for them. It’s about finding that middle ground—staying true to my sound while keeping the energy engaging and stimulating. Some sets are dark and rough; others are light and fun. It depends on the context and how you adapt to it without compromising.

This ties into the larger conversation about the mainstream versus the underground. Do you think the industry will evolve to make more space for experimentation?

A: The music scene is cyclical. It swings between creative experimentation and peak commercialism. Right now, I feel we’re closer to commercialism. DJs, producers, bookers, labels I once admired are now leaning into accessibility, playing it safe for hype and sales, resulting in monotonous, trend-driven output. However, I’m hopeful for a shift back to adventurous, personal sounds and individualism, because many in the scene are starting to feel disillusioned. It takes a collective effort to break the loop, but I think we’re heading in the right direction.

J: I agree. Music should be about sharing your individual sound, not copying what’s trending. The artists I respect most are the ones who stay true to their niche, even if it doesn’t make them rich or famous. It’s about integrity and introducing people to something new and meaningful. That’s what we try to do with our sets and with No_Stone.

In No_Stone, the aim is to leave no stone unturned” in your exploration of sound. Upon research, I came across that the origin of the phrase dates back to an ancient Greek legend where an oracle advised a general to search under every stone to find hidden treasures, signifying the importance of exhaustive investigation or effort. Considering the creative process to be a mirror of this philosophy, can you take us behind the scenes and to the influence you aim to create for the listeners? 


A: The idea of “imperfect balance” reflects the fact that we’re not trying to go to extremes. It’s not about “raving until we drop” or about creating events that are purely for deep listening. It’s about finding a middle ground. Personally, when I go to events, I get bored if it’s all in one direction—either constant high energy or purely introspective. The harmony lies in moving between these states. At our events, there will always be people who want more energy and others who prefer introspection. It’s impossible to please everyone, but we can keep things dynamic. The balance will never be perfect, and that’s okay—it keeps things interesting. It’s like constantly shifting left and right to keep the center. That’s what we aim for.

J: Assyouti actually came up with the term “imperfect balance” before I joined, but it resonates with how I approach music too. No event or dj-set will ever be flawless, and that’s the point. Acknowledging imperfection keeps things organic.

How did this passion serve as a medium for delivering profound messages and fostering cultural connections?

J: One example that comes to mind is a mix I recently prepared for national radio in Barcelona. Unlike an online stream for an audience already familiar with our scene, this was broadcast to everyday listeners—people driving home from work, for instance. For me, that was a chance to play African, Arabic and Middle Eastern music. It was a way to showcase these cultures to people that wouldn’t really get exposed to them in their daily lives.

In clubs or spaces, I often play to people who already share similar views or appreciate the music I play—people who might cheer when I drop an Arabic or Palestinian track. But for the radio, I felt it was more intentional. It wasn’t just about playing a set; it was about using music as a bridge to connect cultures.

A: An example for me was during a fundraiser for Palestine. I didn’t approach it as just another club set. I was trying to tap into the collective emotions of the crowd, and that wasn’t by simply playing some Middle Eastern tracks, but rather creating an emotional narrative tied to the reason why everyone was there—to support Palestine. Because people were already emotional, and I wanted to offer a way to process and release that through music. That’s part of what I think we, as DJs, are here to do—not only play fun or bright tracks to always entertain, but also match the tone and energy of the moment when the situation calls for something deeper.

The DIY aspect is quite authentic and aligned with the philosophy. How does it add to the projects message?

J: The DIY aspect mirrors the essence of No_Stone. It’s raw, real, and human. We’re not focusing on making it look perfect or polished. The priority is the music and the experience. That said, we recognize that visual identity matters, and we might refine it in the future. But for now, we believe it to be a mirror to its core.

A: Exactly. Just like in our careers, we’ve built an audience slowly but genuinely. The people who come to No_Stone events are there for the music and the experience—not because of flashy posters or a trendy Instagram feed. It’s about creating a real connection with our audience, and that authenticity is what makes the project so special.

ciguë

From prototyping in France to wooden structures in Jakarta, ciguë’s practice embodies a growing world

ciguë, with their portfolio of projects around the globe, has created a world within a world. Rooted in their Parisian beginnings, each project carries fragments of the places they’ve worked, building a collective vision that continually evolves. In an interview with NR, founding partners Alphonse Sarthout, Camille Bénard, and Guillem Renard delve into the projects and processes that define the spaces that they create.

We heard that ciguë was founded when you all were in architecture school in Paris. It’s almost as if you’ve grown up in the industry together. How have your relationships evolved throughout the years?

A: When we started, there was no topic we wouldn’t share with each other. In the beginning, we could spend an entire day just talking about one project—this helped us a lot to build a foundation of ideas and understand our direction. After 20 years, we now share a common intuition. There’s much less talking than before and more acting with trust in each other.

C: For some people, there is life and then there is work. We [the partners] never tried to separate these things. Our beliefs from our private lives are applied in our professional lives too. For us, it’s all one and the same: life is research; it’s a playground; it’s also a lot of work.

A: Maybe the biggest challenge is having the team grow beyond the partners—we need to employ people. Many journalists still use the word ‘collective’ to describe us, but really today, we are a company with partners and employees trying to keep up that spirit.

We try not to have any hierarchy in the creative process: but we still work toward collective thinking that goes beyond the architect, contractors, craftsmen, and clients. We’ve tried from the beginning to have everyone around the table, working toward a common idea. We strongly believe that the best projects we’ve done were not just us in a corner having nice ideas—it’s best when we can build relationships.

Your work with Ace Athens is one the firm’s largest projects to date in terms of both scale and scope. The Hotel & Swim Club is a 120-room property with a pool, gallery, and café. Notably, the project works around the renewal of the Fenix Hotel. What was one part of the space that challenged you? One part that inspired you?

A: Ace Athens is actually not the biggest project we’ve worked on, but at the moment, it is the biggest project to be realised and delivered.

A big challenge: The balconies on the façade make the building very particular. The rule was one balcony to one room, so we had to preserve the rooms’ partitions. Additionally, there were legal restraints. If we demolished something in the hotel, we couldn’t rebuild it as a hotel, because current urban planning regulations only permit housing developments.

We also had to find a way to give the exterior a certain elegance. Unfortunately, it was a very fragile structure that required reinforcing the concrete with very specific techniques. When we found the hotel, it had a very 80s-90s style of mixed material with these ugly plastic additions. It was not very inspiring, so we had to strip it to the bone to revive the structure.

C: I see two major things in this rehabilitation. First, it reflects the kind of architect we want to be. Existing buildings are everywhere, and our focus is to take something that’s falling and give it a new life. This belief has guided our company’s history.

Second, once you give life to the rehabilitation, the question then becomes how to connect it to the city and make it embody the place it’s in. We partnered up with a friend of ours, Matthieu Prat, who has spent a lot of time in Athens finding artists in the local scene. This collaboration [which resulted in showcasing the works of 18 Athenian artists in the hotel] was an essential part of this process.

In the Aesop Nashville store, there’s these tall wooden beams with shelves mimicking an ax intersecting a tree. It’s noted here that you were inspired by the American legacy of “first growth pine.” We’re interested in your first interactions with Nashville and what led you to the discovery of this site-specific phenomenon?

G: With our projects, we try and find a way to blend with the locals. We walk through the streets, finding some materiality to ground us. But this is a good question because, being French, it’s not so easy to casually navigate a place like Tennessee.

We ended up finding this guy who was a kind of collector in what seemed to be a sawmill factory. We pushed open the doors to his space and we discovered these crazy old wood beams and dismantled logs from the beginning of the 20th century. They were super nicely refurbished. That’s when we said, “here is our project.” For us, it expressed the historical legacy through a material – we could work with it as a starting point.

C: It brought all these archetypes of America into one gesture, or one scene.

A: What Guillem described is a process we’ve been doing for every project abroad. If the conditions allow it, we request to withhold from designing until we get a chance to be on site for a few days. Of course, it’s not easy to say to the client, “in order to design, we need you to pay for a trip first.” But for us, this is very important.

We did this for Isabel Marant in Tokyo. We spent almost a week walking around the city, going to the harbor, finding factories, people working with local materials. We do all this to get inspired and immerse ourselves in the culture.

C: In general, we don’t want to find ourselves imposing our French culture onto a project. Rather, what interests us is discovering how cultures can blend. That’s where we’re seeking to design from.

Your work is known for its connection to craftsmanship and prototyping. There are a lot of fixtures (including elaborate systems and contraptions) within the Aesop stores that are made by the team at ciguë. Given your emphasis on craftsmanship and custom design, but with a growing international presence, how has your process for creating custom pieces evolved? Are your prototypes still primarily developed in France, or do you now collaborate with local artisans in different regions?

C: Overtime, the tools of architecture have been reduced to the lines on AutoCAD. We didn’t recognize ourselves in this. Our practice was born from the will to make things as well as to design them. We prototype because it’s very evocative and allows us to get rid of words and drawings. So many ideas can be summed up just in one piece.

Sometimes we also use prototypes to discuss with the makers that execute the designs. We’ve found that it’s a super rich and fast way to exchange ideas without language.

A: At the beginning, we were designing and building everything ourselves systematically. When we started to have projects abroad, we were obliged, almost forced, to have our project built by others—at least that’s how we perceived it. But after a few projects, we discovered that collaboration with local makers made the process so much more interesting.

For one of the first stores we did abroad, we built everything here in France. We shipped it, installed it there in three days, and then came back to Paris. It was a challenge. We made it, but then we just realized we couldn’t see the city or meet anyone there. In the end, it was just like any project done in our workshop in France.

One or two years later, we did a project in Tokyo for Isabel Marant. There, we discovered Japanese craftsmanship, and it was amazing. The first meeting we had, we didn’t say anything. We were at a table filled with materials and samples. There was a language barrier, but through the materials, we could see there was a deep understanding between us. After this, we took a bit of distance from systematically building everything ourselves

In the Arabica coffee space in Jakarta (2023), the architecture pulls from both Javanese crafts, traditional Indonesian dwellings, and the heritage of Dutch colonial architecture – all influences that are palpable in the city. I’m interested in understanding the process of building this wooden structure.

G: On this project, carpentry was a big challenge because there is a lot of wood available for use within Indonesia. All the wood from the country is going abroad now for furniture and other uses. They are struggling a lot to keep the material in their territory. Because of this, it was a big challenge for us to get the clients, the engineers, and the other stakeholders to understand the idea behind having a wood building.

We wanted to integrate into the neighborhood’s old wooden construction. This area was a historic neighborhood, and we wanted to emphasize that.

A: Playing with the archetypes of the Javanese house, with its big, airy, ventilated structures, made sense to us. It wasn’t in a nostalgic way. It was more because, if it’s been this way for centuries, then there must be a reason. Unfortunately, with modernity, there have been so many aspects of traditional architecture that have been erased through technology. With air conditioning and concrete as fast building methods, there has been a loss of the specificities of certain architecture that makes it rich.

C: Such as was this case in Jakarta, sometimes we build new buildings. This isn’t a light act for us—we feel a strong responsibility. That’s why we look to invoke a certain culture or link it to local knowledge about buildings.

Working so much in the public-facing retail sector, your spaces have more foot traffic than say an office or private residence. Are there any standout memories you have of the public interacting with your spaces in an unexpected way?

A: I’m reminded of what we did for the Citadium project. It is a department store, mainly for young people, kids, and teenagers. The funny story is that the manager of the place had always been a fan of music and radio, so he decided to create a radio station in the space. The renovation happened during COVID.

G: It was a DJ booth and a welcoming radio station for Rinse, Paris. It plays electronic music and everything on a web radio that’s strongly resonant in the young generation.

A: During COVID, all the clubs in Paris closed, but Citadium was open because of capacity rules. They could still welcome people. This radio station became the only place you could hear live music, DJs and performances. The initial intention to create a radio station is already cool, but then during COVID, it became an important communal place.

In every city, project, and prototype, Ciguë’s work is about a unified voice—not singular, but a composition of many stories, colors, and textures gathered over their years of practice. Reflecting this ethos, in NR’s conversation, Alphonse says, “Throughout our projects, we want to feel like we’re still on the path of discovering who we are. If we realize one day that we’re just repeating the same style because we’re Ciguë and that’s what Ciguë should do, then we just won’t make sense anymore. Every project is a new story. Every project is an occasion to reinvent ourselves and meet new people, new materials, invent ways of doing things.”

Credits

  1. ciguë architecture, Isabel Marant Store, Tokyo-Omotesando. Photography by Koyo Takayama.
  2. ciguë architecture, Ace Hotel, Athens. Photography by Pasquale De Maffini.
  3. ciguë architecture, Aesop Store, Nashville. Photography by Aesop.
  4. ciguë architecture, Isabel Marant Store, Tokyo-Omotesando. Photography by Koyo Takayama.
  5. ciguë architecture, Arabica Coffee Shop, Jakarta. Photography by Ricky Adrian.
  6. ciguë architecture, Citadium, Paris. Photography by Maris Mezulis.

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